Gerard Baden-Clay DAY 2 Pre-Trial Hearing 4th February, 2014

Pre-Trial Hearing – Tuesday, 4th February, 2014 at 10:00am

Allison Baden-Clay

A relationship counsellor has given evidence at the second day of the Brisbane pre-trial hearing for accused wife murderer Gerard Baden-Clay.

Baden-Clay has pleaded not guilty to killing his 43-year-old wife Allison in April 2012 and interfering with her corpse.

Her body was found under the Kholo Creek Bridge at Anstead, 10 days after she disappeared from the family home at nearby Brookfield.

Carmel Ritchie from Relationships Australia told today’s hearing that saw Mrs Baden-Clay a month earlier.

Ms Ritchie told the Supreme Court that the mother of three told her she had taken an anti-malarial tablet during her honeymoon that had caused psychotic episodes, depression and panic attacks.

She said Mrs Baden-Clay was “over the moon” that her husband had agreed to come to her second counselling session in April, three days before she disappeared.

Ms Ritchie also said Mrs Baden-Clay spoke of her husband’s affair with an employee, how she had confronted him when she found out, and that he was now honest and taking responsibility.

Ms Ritchie also spoke of a separate counselling session with Gerard Baden-Clay where they discussed his affair with an employee.

He told her Allison did not trust him, she questioned him, she said yes when she meant no.

Baden-Clay, a former real estate agent, is due to face trial in June.


302 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay DAY 2 Pre-Trial Hearing 4th February, 2014

  1. Good afternoon everyone 😀

    If Dr Milne’s testimony is not taken into account, then, perhaps, the medication in Allison’s body will then be given more weight than they should by a jury on deliberation. What do you think?


    • I can’t see how the Judge could rule that Dr Milne could not testify during the trial. Again as I posted earlier, it was determined that the level of Zoloft in Allison’s body was not sufficient to kill her. If it was not death by chemical overdose, how did Allison die? Did she walk 14km to Kholo Bridge and then jump off it to be found where she lay 10 days later? These are the facts for the jury to deliberate.


      • Hi Sad for Allison,

        I believe one can not jump off a bridge and then land UNDER it!!!!! Sadly I think she must have been deliberately placed there in a place where she can lie undisturbed and undetected even in an aerial search for a week or two until DNA and COD evidence would be destroyed.

        She would have had to be found of course for her insurance to be applied for pronto, since the end of financial year was looming….so it would not surprise me if the plan was after a certain time to give an anonymous tip-off to the police as to where she may be found. It may be that she was found before such tip-off occurred, or it may be that it was as a result of such….all should come out mid-year.

        I think it is obvious to all she did not walk to the bridge and also did not commit suicide. She was placed there by evil human hands, with or without an accomplice.

        While Allison has been lying lifeless and cold and her children have had to live without her precious love for nearly 2 years, her murderer who discarded her like a piece of rubbish has been alive, and his helpers have all been free to carry on with business as usual.

        It is just not fair! It is time that the truth about the evil that was perpetrated on that fateful night be exposed and justice be served on ALL those involved in helping plot, execute and lie about this evil deed.


        • I agree with you RIP, whether it was a tip-off so that her body was found in time (before FYE) or not, who knows. Certainly it was long enough for the cause of death to be obscured, how disgusting and revolting is that. Yes, we will have so many more facts at the trial, no doubt about that. The suicide theory is not going to wash with a jury, I don’t believe. They will figure out that she did not commit suicide and the question then is how did she die?

          Your comment about the children is so true, they are effectively orphans now, with their extended family caring for them. What concerns me is the age of the Dickies, Allison’s parents, who will not live forever. I know Allison’s brother is overseas, but have never been able to find the answer to the question of where her sister, Vanessa is? She would be of an age to take care of the three girls, and possibly have children of her own of a similar age. Yes, there are others who have knowledge (at the least) of this murder, or who have assisted in it.


  2. This particular testimony has affected me emotionally more than other previous information.

    Is my reaction because it shows Allison’s vulnerability, blaming herself for adverse medical reactions, depression, her husband’s habitual infidelity as a consequence, her joy at his preparedness to share counselling, her hopes for the future, her belief in his shared vision despite his trespasses?

    Or is it because of his own words:

    “I’ve had enough, I want to leave”

    “Allison does not trust me. She questions me”

    “Isn’t that regression? Isn’t that living in the past?” (with regard to allowing Allison to voice her feelings about a long-standing affair)

    And from the counsellor:

    “He wants to get on with life. Wipe it clean”

    “For Gerard, his image in the community is very important…He believes he is a valuable member of society”

    So sickened was I by this evidence, I was going to use the phrase “mongrel” until I looked its actual meaning up in the dictionary. To do so would be grossly unfair to “animals of mixed breed.”

    I’ll settle for “conniving, morally corrupt, supercilious creep.”

    That’s until further evidence becomes available, at which time I might have to research other terminology that encompasses people who are shallow, vain, evil, narcissistic, ethically paralysed, think they can get away with murder etc.

    Verdict time will have me reaching for the Thesaurus for superlatives.


    • Dearest GHS,

      Yes, just awful, all of it, and unbelievable that that “man” could live with himself. The situation that poor Allison was in, and although “drowning”, she was trying everything to save her marriage with that. that…….grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


      • I agree with you guys, I too feel angry about what this man has done, annoyed that he will now use taxpayer’s money to defend himself with lies, and disgusted that his family supports not justice but him getting away with callous murder. Awful.


    • Here’s some words that you won’t need to look up in the thesaurus: how about ‘lying’, ‘murdering’, ‘scheming’ and ‘a$&hole’
      So these two days have confirmed two main things for us: that the COD is indeed unable to be accurately determined, and that the defendant is a prick – which we already knew. In June we will see if the crown can prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is indeed also a murdering prick.
      Sorry. Had to get a bit of angry out.


  3. Where to start? Thanks Moonlight for putting this information out there, is a start. So much of this makes me so angry. The facts are:

    Allison found out about the 3 year affair, 7 months before she died.
    She wanted to save the marriage.
    Allison believes all the problems in her marriage are all her fault (from her own words to the counsellor) BECAUSE Gerard has always told her it is was!
    She was depressed, “therefore I’m excused from having an affair or three or four, who knows the number?” I doubt even Gerard knows how many times he played up on her.
    She is ‘over the moon’ that GBC even attended the counselling session (poor soul.)
    They were to continue the conversation in the next week or two. Sadly, Allison did not live long enough to even book another appointment.

    GBC, playing head-games and with his own agenda, I believe, agreed to attend the counselling session 4 or so days before Allison died.
    He talks about himself and his achievements (what the hell, but there’s the narcissism for all to see).
    He doesn’t want to go over the past and refers to it as “regression” while the counsellor is telling him that this is very much in the present for his wife.
    Eventually they “agree” that Allison can talk to him about her feelings every second night for 10 – 15 minutes. I hate to think what GBC did during these sessions, when he was counselled to “just listen” to his wife.
    Allison “says yes when she means no”, why would that be Gerard? What would the consequences for her be if she disagreed with you? Bruises, bullying, falling down stairs, who knows what, that’s what!
    He says he wants to move on from the affair and continue his relationship with his wife, while ALL THE WHILE he has established a false identity, Bruce Overland, and is still promising Toni McHugh that he will be with her unconditionally by July. And continues that affair after his wife is “missing”.
    I’m sorry, but again, this makes me so angry.


    • Dear Sad for Allison,

      I keep thinking of the family. The lady whom I noticed has a family resemblance to Allison’s side of the family yesterday in court, was on the news just now, leaving the court room earlier today.

      I keep thinking of the feeling they would have, having to cope with losing Allison, then having to listen to twists and turns.

      It makes one very emotional for them, yes, and the anger, the frustration, the helplessness.


    • Yes, imagine him wanting to discuss his “achievements” with the marriage counselor!! What ‘achievements’ anyway? His business was a complete failure and insolvent, his marriage on the rocks, his personal life a big mess with several mistresses and a need to create multiple false identities on his phone. And last but not least he was in debt to the tune of almost $million! His ‘achievements’ were just smoke and mirrors, none of it was real. The only really good thing he had was a wife who loved him in spite of his disconnect with reality and many indiscretions. And her he did not want…..what a loser!


  4. These words, to me, sum it up in a nutshell.

    “Allison said Gerard’s personality was “ambitious and leader like” and he had high expectations of her and the children, Ms Richie told the court.

    She told the counsellor her father felt as though “he was controlling her”, the court was told.

    In her case notes, the counsellor wrote her opinion that Allison was a “conflict avoider who has said yes too many times in the relationship”.

    To Gerard, Allison was not the girl he married, while Gerard had changed to a “look after myself” attitude, the court was told.”

    Yes, Gerard had high expectations of Allison and the children, but he could do what he wanted to and no-one could question him.

    Allison’s father, bless him, thought Gerard was controlling Allison. What parent wouldn’t try to protect their offspring from what they could see was happening.

    Gerard looked after himself (what a surprise!)

    This is a classic example of the Stockholm syndrome and gas-lighting.


  5. What was she doing under that bridge?
    I have a feeling that Allison was dangled from that bridge, either dead or just alive, with her pullover up over her head, and swung long enough for her arms to become semi wrapped and lost within that pullover/jumper. Then she was dropped with another slight swinging motion so that her resting place was slightly under that bridge. Obscured from view.
    When earlier reports suggested she had no hands, that translated into: her hands were not in sight. Encompassed within her twisted clothing along with her hands and arms was a latex glove tip.


    • Ah yes, QCL, that latex glove tip. Very interesting indeed, as you commented earlier. As I’ve said before, we’ve only heard “the tip of the iceberg” in the evidence thus far…


  6. Is it correct to conclude after the 2 day’s hearings that:
    1. No particular evidence has been discounted as inadmissible at this stage.
    2. The counselor’s testimony confirmed that in spite of being treated with little respect by Gerard, Allison was still prepared to forgive him and try and rebuild their marriage days before her death.
    3. That Gerard lied through his teeth to both Allison and the counselor re his intention of leaving the affair in the past and rebuilding his marriage. We know he was continuing the affair with TMcH and had made a promise to her that he would settle his debts and be with her a free man by mid-year.

    If he was serious about his promises to the mistress, it did not leave a lot of time for Allison to die, for her body to not be found for a week or two in order for DNA and COD evidence to be destroyed, for her then to be ‘found’ and him to claim and receive her life insurance in order to settle his debts due the end of June.

    I have a feeling on the night Allison died she found out that all his promises were empty ones and that she did not feature in his future. I won’t be surprised if he decided in some sadistic manner to inform her of his real plans before he killed her.

    Do I remember correctly that there were texts or telephone conversations between him and TMcH about portraits of the two lovers that were picked up that day for him to take home? There seemed to be some urgency about him getting these photographs. Did he intend using them to break the news to Allison?? Or leave them somewhere where she could find them ‘accidentally’, so if she flies off the handle he can claim she attacked him or he was provoked?? Hmmm….one wonders what will surface in June…..


    • A spot on summation, RIP Allison.

      You’ve raised some points I had forgotten.

      You’ve also jogged my memory about something else.

      That in one of the ‘vent’ sessions, he drew the floorplan of the house in which he and Toni McHugh had bedded down – in Allison’s journal!!

      The words “cruel” and “monster” spring to mind.


    • Hi RIP,
      I suspected that the counseling session would be for Gerb’s own benefit(down the track murder with suicide as the cause) in a similar way he went to the doctors to verify the caterpillar attack. He had no intention of making the marriage work and the murder was well and truly planned but maybe not on the night it actually happened . Its a pity that narcissism cannot be applied in law in the same way DNA is.

      This article may give people here who aren’t familiar with narcissism a little insight into splitting, there are also some posts at the bottom of the article that are from affected partners that are interesting reading and show the type of relationship Allison was in.


      • Thanks so much for the link captainstruggles. Disturbing reading from people who’ve experienced living with a NPD partner indeed.


      • Thanks Captain Struggles for the link…it is rather scary! I feel so terribly sorry that Allison hung in there long enough for it to end in this tragic way. She was such a bright, talented, loving person with everything going for her, and instead of counting his blessings and adoring her GBC gradually wore her down and robbed her of her confidence, her own self really, before taking her life too. It is awful that a person can drain the life force out of another like this over time, and then even that was not enough….even in death she had to be exchanged for $$….so terribly sad!


  7. This is going to be a Novel, so I apologise in advance
    FWIW here’s my theory on What Happened
    The Perfect Storm

    The Fuel
    (Motive) – The Problem: The Pressure of Keeping Up Appearances
    · Financial – debts about to fall due, business failing, owes everyone including family money; not enough coming in to pay bills let alone lifestyle
    · Ego – expansion appearance of success about to be blown, losing credibility among business associates and acquaintances, he is about to be revealed as inadequate in all areas – husband, father, businessman, person.
    · Mistress 1 – I will come to you unencumbered by July 1 – needs to either get out of this relationship or commit to it; Mistress has committed and broken up own relationship
    · Other Mistresses – one pregnant?
    · The Wife – eagerly and naively attempting to mend the marriage
    · Can’t afford a divorce
    · Don’t want to be ‘poor’
    · Can’t access any further loans
    · Do I have enough balls to knock her off (no)
    · Lies told to so many people, keeping track of all the different stories
    · Which car or client house to shag in
    · Which one to shag
    · Finding time to shag while being monitored by Wife and Mistress
    · The Wife now working in the business and now able to keep a closer eye on activities (helping relieve the financial pressures and mend The Relationship)
    · The Wife is depressed and ‘needy’ of emotional support (wonder why)
    · Losing control of The Wife through counselling
    · Jealousy of The Wife – she has A Plan to Fix Things – he does not. She is smart and ethical – he is not. She is willing to accept blame over and above – he is a Bully
    · All the Lies and Tap Dancing about to come together to explode with biggest potential damage being to ego – I’m all this and I’m all that to counsellor with no real insight as to emotions

    Aha – a Solution!
    Life Insurance and Superannuation payouts – ah. But how to access them. Only one way, really. Oh God, I might have to solve my own problem for once. Yuck.

    The Matches
    · Mistress 1 insists he tell The Wife she will be at conference – or Mistress will tell Wife herself
    · The Wife and Mistress 1 about to be in same room together without Gerard to control
    · 15m session with no kids at home the night before The Wife ‘disappears’ where The Wife gets to ask questions and vent (‘grill’)
    · Physical strength – and maybe with help? No. Because only Dumbass would leave a bit of the glove in the sleeve.
    · Transport – her own car, of course. It was parked behind because she was going out first in the morning. Not his that he might need to use for shagging later on. Too many Bad Memories.
    · Brains to concoct alibi/story – yes with help.

    The Fire
    · ‘Grill’ session goes pear-shaped – he is forced to admit during that discussion that Mistress 1 will be at conference tomorrow leads to admission that affair has never stopped/continues
    · He walks away, she follows, ‘leave me alone’, he kicks her in the chest, she falls down hitting head, he finishes her off by throttling her because she would hurt herself to make his life even more bloody difficult, wouldn’t she
    · He drags her out to car and drives off to dump her
    · He plans to dump somewhere then is seen and drives to Kholo
    · He drags her down and leaves her under bridge
    · Bwana, Mrs Bwana and Sister become involved
    · Bwana drives out to make sure he’s done it properly and set up The Story (go to work as usual, don’t know where Mummy is, maybe she left early for conference/out walking)
    · Now just wait until The Body is found and claim the loot – all sorted

    Panic Stations – Extinguishing The Fire
    The Story goes pear-shaped when the friend calls about being picked up…..…..and so on, and so on, and we pretty much know The Rest.
    The Tapestry of Lies quickly becomes unravelled.
    Was it planned? Loosely. The advancing deadline would have brought things to a head. He wasn’t smart enough and didn’t have enough balls to do it until that night, when he was able to fire himself up and solve all his problems.
    Then took someone(s) a Little Bit Smarter back later to see what he’d done and whether he’d done it properly

    Poor Gerard.

    No actually: Poor Al. A True Believer, casualty of a desperate NPD gaslighter.


    • Good time line, Tishy, very well thought out. It would have irked him that Allison, intelligently, wanted to sort things out, held up his plans, annoying. Don’t want to sort things, TMcH is impatient, have to please her so she doesn’t suspect other women in life too, don’t want drama, or hassles, stressed from juggling women, don’t want a needy one that have to show his own time-line to, want easy life with new car to take all the children. OMG.


    • Dear Tishy,
      Your observations are chilling, and the timeline seems right.
      Let us all hope and pray that Oh Danny Boyle has even more evidence in his kit bag.
      Thank you for your measured contributions…


      • Yes GHS, I agree with your comment on Tishy’s post. Funny, poignant, chilling and possibly very close to the truth. Tishy, what a great post , you have your eye on the target and the possibility of this being the truth of what happened that night hit a nerve with me. I do love your commentary, and you’re highly perceptive especially when it comes to GBC!


  8. Following on from comments by GHS about the unhealthy ‘community’, interesting also that he rang the local copper he was already acquainted with from neighbourhood watch first! before following the usual process a Normal Person would follow. It’s not what you know etc. Perhaps he was hoping the path would be smoothed for him. Bugger.


    • Ahhhh Tishy, I didn’t know that. LOL, I was told by someone “on the ground” lol that they knew it was him immediately. Methinks the “trying to outsmart” backfired completely.

      Don’t you love it?!!

      By the way – I love novels, lol 😀


  9. Well said Tishy – I think you are close to the mark!

    I too feel it was planned, probably down to dumping her UNDER the bridge and ABOVE the high water mark to suit his evil purposes. The piece of glove found may be circumstantial but also indicates some forethought to me, not a momentary act of blind anger. He does not exactly come across as the sharpest pencil in the box…one wonders if he planned it all by himself or received advice from the likes of a pushy mistress and/or a personal ‘financial advisor’…???

    As with plans of mice and men all does not always work out. It seems he planned for suffocation/strangulation, not for blood to flow, so he was unprepared for a bloody mess in the car, leaving incriminating DNA evidence. An unplanned mouth injury, chipped tooth, and lips and tongue bleeding profusely as these parts do, could account for this. I think he totally underestimated the fight a mother will put up to stay alive for her children. Hence the next morning he had to invite QPS over, whilst sporting a mosaic of bruises and fingernail scratches from the previous night’s life and death struggle. What a cheek to still protest his innocence!

    The bloodcurdling screams heard in the Rafting Ground/Rees Rd area late on 19/4/12 also seem rather odd. One wonders if unbeknown to her killer Allison was perhaps just unconscious at first and regained consciousness while he was driving through this area to go and dump her at Kholo Ck. She may have put up another almighty struggle which ended up outside the car and resulted in residents hearing screams that were then suddenly muffled. It may be that this area is where he finally took her life. Something else which may or may not be connected is a sighting of Nigel and Elaine recorded on our previous blog, just sitting in their Bwana mobile in this area early on 2 July on the corner of Rafting Ground Rd and Westridge Rd, just staring into space…odd….is there perhaps a connection?

    Back to Gerard, what I have found amazing is that within seconds of seeing his and sister OW’s initial media interview, I felt sure he had killed Allison and OW knew. Their body language screamed the truth although they were trying to tell a different story. He looked like a controlling bully and I suspected Allison’s death was likely the end to years of spousal abuse. Now nearly 2 years on those instant impressions still seem entirely correct. I am amazed at our ability to ‘read’ non-verbal communication.

    Sadly Allison was betrayed in the worst possible way by a person who did not deserve her love. For her sake and that of her family and 3 little girls, may justice be served for this most evil deed.


    • Yes SFA, oh yes.
      This was not blind anger alone, that is for sure.
      And they all knew, and in knowing and not telling the truth, they have continued to betray Allison and continue to betray the trust of their grandchildren.
      Tell the truth, and at least let those poor girls attempt to heal.


      • Tishy and RIP, it’s interesting how the family just follows behind blindly, especially given that OW’s husband is a pastor – talk about ethics or lack thereof, conscience, belief in the hereafter and whatever else! For whatever reason GBC’s parents are remaining tight-lipped as they have from the beginning refusing to provide a statement to investigators.

        I’ve had this disturbing thought at the back of my mind for so long now. We know that GBC was an abusive partner, whatever form that took, verbal, physical and the rest. But my disturbing thought is this: what if GBC lost it and injured Allison that night, but then in his usual incompetent fashion (as you so aptly said Tishy, actually had to solve one of his problems himself!) he ran to daddy and called him saying “help, what do I do now? Allison is unconscious/injured but alive.”

        I can picture Bwana storming over from Kenmore to Brookfield and berating his son for his ineptitude and saying “I’ll sort this out!” and actually performing the final deed. This concerns me as if this is the case, they are trying the wrong BC. I try to take some comfort from the fact, if this is how it pans out, that GBC will be jailed as an accessory, and there’s no reason why the QPS can’t instigate proceedings for a new trial against his father (and others as accessories?) Please tell me I’m wrong.


    • Dear RIP

      Your thoughts about the scenarios ring all too true, sadly.

      In fact, the recent offerings from contributors here bring back to mind the avalanche of evidence which has lain dormant for quite some time now.

      The questions remain as disturbing as ever. However, the bafflement points toward some obvious answers.


  10. Unfortunately I have extensive experience on which to base observations. There but for the grace of God go I, as the saying goes.

    Thanks and apologies again for the bloody novel, I got a bit cranky (again) about all this and sometimes writing it out is cathartic.
    Thank goodness because I got injured doing it….cricked neck from shaking head in disbelief and cramp in eyeballs from rolling to top of head at sheer stupidity.


  11. Agreed Tishy about them all knowing and aiding and abetting such an evil deed, some may even have participated. Horrible!

    Your novel was great! I think as we grow older and wiser and realise how nasty and deceptive some individuals can be, completely disabling our ‘radar’ and potentially trapping us in circumstances we never imagined possible, ‘there but for the grace of God go I’ may well apply to many of us.

    Nothing can bring Allison back, but truth and justice can bring some closure. We have to trust that our justice system will deliver this.


  12. Dear SFA, I can also unfortunately see that scenario as a possibility.
    I do think though that if it was to turn out to be the case, then the legal options are certainly there to charge the right person. Somehow though, seems that it was all such a mess that only the incompetent one could have stuffed it all up so badly. Surely.


    • Sad for Allison, I think secondary involvement as you suggest is not out of the question. I still have a feeling about that video call that was supposedly made in the middle of the night and then later its existence was disputed….how one could find such very specific information in a phone and then suddenly it supposedly never existed never sounded quite right to me….

      And of course there was also the rumour of Bwana having been sighted at the bus stop at the Kenmore roundabout late that night. Clearly something of interest was picked up by the cameras there too.

      Only the inner BC circle and probably also TMcH will know what really happened, and their lips are sealed…hopefully the prosecution will be able to reconstruct the happenings of that night during the trial. We will probably be amazed by all that will be revealed.


      • Yes I agree, reconstructing the events of that night will no doubt be crucial at the trial. I also believe that we’ll be blind-sided by the facts that come out at the trial, no doubt about that. And the roundabout… Poor, poor Allison’s family and friends, my heart bleeds for them when they hear the evidence.

        If TMcH is in on the facts of what happened that night (and surely she would be) it throws a different light on things as she is a witness for the prosecution, not the defence. That makes me think they can subpoena her evidence, but whether she lies or not is another matter. Whether she still harbours fond hopes of being with her one true love after this huge glitch is over is another.


    • Tishy you are funny, I love your sense of humour! No doubt the annointed son stuffed up big time that night, but just how big we don’t know as yet.


  13. I think it is quite telling how Alison was surprised that GBC decided to have a session with the marriage counsellor. She obviously knew it was out of character for him and if she could speak today would probably say, “Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I should have realised and listened to my gut telling me that he has a sinister reason for coming along.”


    • The Thinker,

      I agree with you with regard to Gerbs attending the relationship counselling. Gerbs was trying to impress the counsellor with his pedigree ………….. bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


  14. One thing for sure, Gerb’s standing in the community isn’t what it used to be – entrepreneur to ex-con …

    Interesting the counsellor pretty much puts a cross through the suicide possibility as Alison was in a very positive mood – ouch Gerb shot in his own foot again….. contradicting his own defence…


    • ICanCU, WordPress is popping some emails still, into pending, so sorry that your mails aren’t going through immediately. It is happening to a lot of people, and I don’t know why.

      So wonderful you are back tonight and chatting 😀


    • Dear ICanCU:

      Are you saying that the pesky caterpillar also managed to shoot Gerbil in the foot?

      The capabilities/skills of the wildlife in Brookfield continue to amaze….


    • Good point ICanCu, I don’t think I’d like to be on GBC’s defence team right now. There are not too many angles to take on this, are there? It’s probably a classic case of a narcissist in action – and I suspect the reason why the first defence team bailed out (or perhaps that was lack of payment?) “Everyone will believe what I believe! Why, because I believe it!”


  15. Hi All , Mike here …

    Presently I cannot access the site so have asked Moonlight to paint this on her blackboard … I am hoping a tech I’ve been put on to can assist me … it’s fortunate for you folks that I cant post as after being silent for some time you’d get sick of me as my gums are ready to flap , if only I could find my teeth … lol.

    I’m pleased to see the response to and the acceptance to the generous gesture of a safe haven to give our support to Allison Baden – Clay and her family.

    Thanks must be given to Moonlight for the courage , dedication and forethought she has given and I must add her report from Day one of GBC’s Pre Trial hearing was superb , one of the best written articles I’ve ever read , it was as though I was in attendance.
    I don’t give literary compliments blindly as I too write for a couple of magazines and have done so for many years … (we cant be giving our peers swollen noggins ! )

    GBH , I ‘ve seen your posts and am in agreeance with what you wrote so eloquently , (another bugger with the gift of the gab) lol.

    It seems the crew here are here to support Allison and the prosecution , as I am however we don’t want to lose sight of the fact that GBC deserves a fair hearing …. although my thought process says I ‘think’ he’s a killer we must be aware until proven beyond reasonable doubt he is innocent.


    • Dear Mike

      You were always a great scribe with considered views and clear principles.

      I am so glad to see you back. We are in for interesting times.


  16. I agree ICanCU, that will do a lot of damage to Gerb’s ego, I bet (yeah).

    It is crazy, Allison had her hair done, left the hairdresser happy, she arranged to meet a girlfriend the next morning, she was still trying to sort out her marriage with Gerb that night. She was actively seeing a counselor.

    On the other hand, the police of course later on, found blood and hair in the back of the car, Gerb and father where cleaning the car that blood and hair was later found in, rather than looking for Allison. I bet they didn’t count on the police arriving so quickly. Dear Allison’s children were told that their mother, by OW, Gerb’s sister, that Mum had, “Fallen down a hole”, a basket full of toys, where strangely placed over the evidence of “invisible” blood in the back of the car. Prescribed pills were left on the dashboard. Huh, a conscientious mother would leave pills on the front of the dashboard with little ones? She would be taking the pills as she drives? Come on, no.

    Gerb said that Allison was walking at night-time. What happens at Brookfield, is if someone is walking on the road, and you would know this, one always looks to see if they know them, it isn’t busy, and someone would have known Allison walking along the road, due to her involvement in Real Estate, Ballet, and the school. They also attended the Brookfield Bar, through making hamburgers to raise money for the school, people knew them.

    All circumstantial, yes; however, if you love someone who would start cleaning their car and not look for the loved one? The father helps to clean the car, too, that is their priority?

    Oh, of course, don’t forget the “found” (by the police) phone call to Gerb’s dad in the middle of the night along with Allison’s mobile phone having gone missing and that Gerb said he didn’t phone anyone.

    Allison suicided – yeah right. Allison ran up Boscombe Road, that steep hill, past the school and all the way to Anstead up over those steep hills? Yeah right.


    • A very good summary Moonlight, thanks. None of these point to suicide, but I read from a counsellor that people can, when pushed, do radical things like end their life if something hugely confronting occurs. This aside, the medical evidence at the committal hearing stated that there was insufficient Zoloft in Allison’s system to cause death, and no other drugs present.

      So if, and this seems possible, the defence go down the ‘suicide’ theory strategy, the jury will have to be convinced that Allison did just that. Walk the distance in the dark of night, unseen by any local on the country roads where she would have stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb, and jumped off the Kholo Bridge. I can’t see that too many of them would ‘buy’ this theory.


        • As far as I understand, he can choose a Judge-only trial at any point before the proceedings commence. Does anyone else know how it works? I do wonder whether he will opt for a Judge-only trial though, I can see how GBC would think it might work in his favour, but then again, maybe not… decisions, decisions. He must have a lot to ponder during those lonely nights in Arthur Gorrie.


          • It will be a Jury, Sad for Allison, the defense wanted the Post Mortem results withheld so that a jury won’t deliberate too much over the three possible causes of death:

            Damage to chest

            Due to the Coroner’s opinion being “Probable” as there weren’t enough tissues to identify cause of death for sure.

            Crazy reason, and horrifying. Terrible.


  17. Exactly Moonlight!! I hope the Police were sharp enough to seize and examine that vacuum cleaner that Bwana tried so brazenly to load right under their noses into his car and remove from the premises the next morning. Apparently he supposedly was more interested in going vacuuming some rental property than looking for his daughter in law. In reality we know after the police left none of them were looking for Allison, they busied themselves with phoning and seeing a lawyer. No vacuuming was done! I suspect that vacuum cleaner’s contents would have been very interesting….in which case we will hear about it during the trial.

    As for all the other nonsense and inconsistencies…there are just statistically far too many coincidences in the Gerb’s version of events to make it even remotely plausible – to name a few:

    1. GBC is on the verge of bankruptcy. He was about a $million in debt, and had borrowed large sums of money from any and everyone he knew, without any possibility of returning this money. Many of his debts were due to be paid by the end of the financial year 30/06/12. Allison’s life insurance COINCIDENTALLY totals about the same amount as his debt.
    2. Toni is sick and tired of being the mistress, and gives GBC an ultimatum, he has to sort out his financial problems and choose her or his wife. GBC promises her he would sort out the finances and be a free man and with her by 1 July 2012. Toni also did NOT want Allison to attend the same real estate function as heron 20/4 and instructs Gerard that Allison must NOT attend. Allison is unaware Toni would attend, is very excited about attending a real estate conference on 20/4/12, has her hair done beautifully for the affair, then COINCIDENTALLY mysteriously ‘disappears’ sometime after 8:30pm never to be seen alive again.
    3. The day before Allison’s disappearance GBC COINCIDENTALLY googled ‘pleading the 5th’ a topic he just COINCIDENTALLY became interested in and wished to discuss in more detail with his mother.
    4. During the night of Allison’s mysterious disappearance numerous neighbours heard 2 bloodcurdling screams and a few other unusual sounds, COINCIDENTALLY sounding as if they were emanating from the GBC property. Several dogs in the area also COINCIDENTALLY went crazy and barked uncontrollably for an extended period of time.
    5. The morning after her disappearance GBC has deep, broad, irregular scratch marks all over his face, similar marks seemingly having been made through clothing and bruising on his neck, chest and underarm area, as well as a cut on the palm of his hand. All the injuries were COINCIDENTALLY caused by a combination of a screwdriver that slipped, a lone caterpillar that made him itch (an expert could not find a single more in the area indicated) and a blunt razor.
    6. The morning after her disappearance he also COINCIDENTALLY felt the need for googling ‘self-incrimination’ just before reporting her missing. GBC and his entire family has taken the information he has gleaned very much to heart since, and has been avoiding self-incrimination at all cost. Even Toni has tried to avoid it as far as possible, in COINCIDENTALLY being very selective regarding giving QPS information on her and GBC’s relationship.
    7. The morning after Allison’s disappearance Allison’s blood was in the back of her Captiva which had COINCIDENTALLY been cleaned, children’s toys packed in this area. Allison’s blood had COINCIDENTALLY been wiped from some areas, but others had been missed and not wiped. NBC also COINCIDENTALLY came to pick up a vacuum cleaner and hosepipe, possibly used in this clean-up, COINCIDENTALLY to clean some rental property.
    8. An empty packet of Zoloft was also COINCIDENTALLY left on this car’s dashboard.
    9. Allison’s phone also went mysteriously missing and COINCIDENTALLY was transmitting a signal from the Brookfield area until its battery ran out, while she was lying under the Kholo bridge. This COINCIDENTALLY kept the massive search for Allison in this area for over a week.
    10. GBC has no idea how Allison could have been killed and disposed of under the Kholo bridge. COINCIDENTALLY he is a very deep sleeper and was fast asleep from 10pm on 19/4 till 6:15am on 20/4. His mobile phone somehow tells another story, it was COINCIDENTALLY taken off and put back on charge a few times during the night.
    11. When Allison was eventually found enough time had COINCIDENTALLY passed for DNA evidence under her nails to be destroyed and for a conclusive COD to be difficult to be determined. She did however have 4 unique plant remains in her hair and on her body, which COINCIDENTALLY could only be found on her patio and in the GBC garden.
    12. As soon as a body was found under the Kholo bridge, GBC (an/or NBC?) moved swiftly to claim her life insurance, COINCIDENTALLY even before she was identified.
    13. The entire BC family is mystified as to how anyone could possibly suspect an upstanding citizen such as Gerard of a murder which just happened to suit his plan and promise to Toni McHugh perfectly – they seem to want us to believe it was all just pure COINCIDENCE!


  18. LOL RIP seeing it written like that just brings it home more! hey.
    Never been much of a believer in co-incidence really. Call me a cynic lol.


    • Couldn’t agree more, Tishy.

      RIP’s posts are invaluable because they remind the weary foot soldiers of how much we may have forgotten over time, and bring home the realisation of just how damning the evidence already aired truly is (sorry about the grammar there)

      I hope that ‘circumstantial’ should only apply to a limited number of instances….taken as a whole as per RIP’s post, ‘circumstantial’ so consistently applied over so many situations surely loses its potency as a stance for the defence?

      RIP, you probably don’t realise that your contributions have engendered a feeling of hope and optimism in your readers after all this time of waiting for justice for Allison and her family.

      Thank you so much,


      • Thanks guys! I really feel hopeful and optimistic that justice will be served, even if it took more than 2 years. It is a complicated case with a lot of evidence being circumstantial, much lying going on and several potential accomplices. So the prosecution must make very sure all their ducks are in a row. The important thing is to get it right.

        The down side with taking so long is that one forgets details, but I think during the trial it will all come back to us as the puzzle pieces come together. It will be really nice to share the experience with like-minded souls – I am really happy Moonlight brought us all back together again! ☺


  19. 🎤 No more lonely nights 🎶 more GHS gold
    I wonder if he was looking so well because he’s finally had a chance to explore his true er…leanings


  20. After reading the counsellor’s comments I have a slightly different picture of Allison. Her life before marriage, by all accounts seemed to be very successful, she was well liked, held a beauty queen title and her career was on the up. She had every reason to expect her life would equal her dreams. Then she meets and marries GBH, I’m sure he was not only attracted to her beauty but also to her success. Unfortunately, Allison’s life changed forever once they married. A bad reaction to malaria meds, causing psychotic episodes, depression and panic attacks which probably impacted on her mental and physical strength. This once successful lady found herself needing help and support from a ‘man’ who only cared about himself. He showed his dedication to her by having affairs and not did understandor care about her depression. The successful women he thought he married was now vulnerable and unattractive to him. Three children later and her career over she often questioned what happened to the young lady with so much promise. I remember early on reading that she was dissatified with how her life panned out. Knowing her marriage was far from perfect with his infidelities and financial ruin fast approaching she must have been in so much turmoil. Raising three daughters, trying to hold a marriage together, knowing about TMcH as well as the in-laws seemingly excepting their son’s affair. WOW … I know love is blind and possibly she was wanting the marriage to work for the sake of the children but the counsellor’s comments infer that she was still besotted with him.

    Is this what depression does to a person?


    • The Thinker. I honestly believe that GBC likely has Narcissistic Personality Disorder; I’ve seen and experienced myself that these people are attracted to bright, successful, intelligent partners with good education and careers…and then once they have them emotionally ‘locked in’, expend every effort they possibly can making them feel bad about themselves, to blame for and the origin of all the problems – because they themselves are inadequate and jealous, and the only way they can feel good about themselves is to make someone else feel bad. They then wonder that the ‘person they married’ is longer there – having completely destroyed whatever shred of self confidence that person ever had. The victim then gets sucked into a cycle of naively, desperately trying to save the relationship, to please their partner, to live up to their standards…and failing, of course. the partner in fact eventually comes to despise the victim as a pathetic, clinging shadow of their former self. I’m convinced this is a classic, tragic example of ‘gaslighting’. It emotionally destroys you and takes a long time, and lots of figuring out to recover from. No wonder she was depressed. She had was intelligent, attractive and totally committed to making her marriage work. The problem is, there was only one of them doing that.


      • I’m with Tishy and RIP on this one,
        I too have had many dealings with mental illness and personality disorders. I think mental illness and personality disorders should be taught or exposed to children at secondary school. There is nothing that prepares us for these conditions except what we experience or when we observe them. I think the fact that Allison was observed as a conflict avoider means she was conditioned to his behavior and the consequences of his behavior patterns and it is perfectly normal for people that don’t understand or know how to deal with disorders to avoid trigger points. The only options with narcissists are to run or make the narcissist run – everything in between is hell.


  21. Hmmmm Thinker, I rather doubt that the malaria medicine really was the cause of Allison’s ongoing depression and anxiety…… I suspect if she was married to a good man who loved her none of this would have occurred – with or without malaria medicine.

    I have a suspicion she ignored for too long the real reason….a person who as I mentioned to Captain Struggles before seemed to have steadily worn her down and robbed her of her confidence, her vivacious and happy self really, before taking her life too. It is awful that a person can gradually drain the life force out of another like this over time, and then even that was not enough….even in death she had to be exchanged for $$….so sad!


  22. YES, Cap’n Struggles, we should absolutely be teaching our kids how to recognise these behaviours. These people are Master Manipulators
    and Pretenders. They pretend to have feelings, empathy, morals, ethics. Some of them are really, really good at pretending. But they don’t feel what normal people do. They suck the life out of you in order to have the energy to present themselves outwardly as normal people.
    They are like leeches, and slowly they will kill you either metaphorically or literally unless you have knowledge, support and the ability to break out. If and when you do, be very, very careful.
    Interestingly anti-malarial medication Larium is quite well known for causing psychiatric side effects. I can see that this may have been the case and caused/compounded later on with/by post-natal depression. However the NPD ‘stock in trade’ is to seize on the very first vulnerability they find in their victim and exploit it. That’s usually the identifiable starting point of the behaviour.

    The ongoing situation of course would have made anyone generally depressed. Why doesn’t he love me? I’m trying so hard to be what he wants. Little do the poor things know that he doesn’t love you, because HE DOESNT KNOW HOW. He’s a Pretender. There is something deep in his nature and nurture that means he is simply not able to genuinely be like a Normal Person. Get yourself out quick and don’t let on that you know. Accept the blame, say it’s me, not you, whatever. Just get out while you still can.


    • Hi Tishy,

      It is all about using a particular word, isn’t? Buzz words, “psychotic episode”

      Poor Allison, gentle, loving caring, just wanted to love and be loved.

      Yes, with regard to teaching our children, it is the best we can do.

      Please don’t forget that Gerbil’s Resume wasn’t as he claimed, either, with regard to being an accountant and computer tech, if memory serves me.

      Always to place blame on other people.


    • Thanks Tishy for the info re Larium. I have never heard of this before, but as they say one is never too old to learn!

      I still think the main cause of her ongoing depression and lack of confidence was her husband. Gee, I get angry all over again if I think about with how much disdain he treated her. Remember her profile on his website, compared to his and parents’ spin profiles, while in reality she was the only one of them with real achievements ? Ggrrrr!


      • Oh yes, RIP, absolutely agree. The larium reaction and the later PND wasn’t the ongoing issue. They were merely Just imagine, Bwana having a ‘depressed’ (weakling) daughter-in-law. The disregard and lack of empathy she would have experienced you can only imagine. To be treated like s&@t by her husband as well, day in, day out…no bloody wonder she was depressed.


      • I agree with you with regard to the husband and depression. I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t help with the girls as babies, as Allison was trying to cope.

        Gerbil was so jealous of his lovely wife, as were his family, in my opinion. They are pretenders, Allison’s family worked hard without scheming.


    • I agree 1000% !! It is absolutely crucial! It influences every aspect of your life – every day. Even influences the traits your children inherit. Nothing else has this kind of impact. A career choice may be 2nd, but does not come close in importance, it can be changed without the repercussions that the choice of partner can have. I don’t think many people realise the true weight of this decision when they make it. We tend to learn it the hard way. Fortunately most of us do not lose our lives in the process, as sadly the case was for Allison.

      There is probably a lesson for all of us in this, to try to pass this on to our children. Many probably won’t listen, because young people tend to think they know better, but maybe at least a few disasters can be averted.

      And another lesson I think I have taken form Allison’s story is if as a parent, relative or friend you know something is badly wrong with a loved one’s partner, do not let them sweep it under the carpet and pretend all is well. Talk earnestly about it, get all out in the open. Secretly suffering is a terrible burden, and leads to this kind of situation where someone may die without anyone else knowing the terrible dark secrets they’ve had to live with, and had action been taken they could perhaps still be with us. I will never ignore such signs.

      My daughter was involved with someone for a few months that in retrospect had much in common with GBC. Amazingly this intelligent girl became so under his spell that she did not want to hear my concerns. This is the biggest problem – these guys know how to pretend – they are master actors, liars and manipulators! It took for me to become an amateur private detective, research his background, contact ex partners and only then when I could present many hard facts to her did the penny drop – thank God it did drop. He of course did not like her seeing through him after that and ending the relationship, caused us all sorts of problems for months. Thankfully now all in the past – but I realise how close she came to losing herself in his clutches. I was told by a few others not to interfere, I’m sorry but I do not even want to think about the consequences had I not. So my advice is be tactful, care enough to ‘interfere’ if need be – never turn a blind eye to such signs!


      • I agree whole-heartedly, even when our offspring are in their 20’s and 30’s we can keep alert to what is happening in their lives and personal relationships and try to guide them. As you say, RIP, whether they listen or not is another matter. Perhaps with younger ones we can tell stories of people we know to illustrate how important their choice of partner will be in their lives.

        I think about Allison’s comment to the counsellor that her father thought GBC controlled her and how right he was. No doubt Allison’s family and friends were aware of certain signs but she may not have spilled her heart to many people. Yes, the “pretending everything is alright” is what’s so dangerous. But then we have to take personal pride and all those things into account as well.

        Your daughter is one very lucky young woman to have you in her life, RIP, with your radar up and a loving heart to act on those gut feelings.


    • Hello, The Thinker. Are you having problems posting, or just “testing”?! If anyone is having a problem posting we could try sending a message to the ‘Contact Us’ field at the top.


  23. RIP, one of the things I found frightening was that a person who is about to go on a wonderful holiday, unwittingly skips along to the doctor, does the right and recommended thing and gets their anti-malarial shot, completely unaware of the potential side effects.
    Bloody scary and just goes to show the importance of informed choice prior to administration of meds 😦


  24. Found this article and thought I should share, apologies if it has been on here before.

    WHO was Allison Baden-Clay? She was the wall print of Van Gogh’s Sunflowers that hangs over her living room.
    She was the framed pictures of family and friends cluttering her bookshelf. She was the mother by a bedside lamp softly singing Away in a Manger to send her three daughters off to sleep.
    She was the sum total of two deeply loving parents, the kind of people thoughtful enough to bring lunch and supplies to a team of emergency workers searching for their missing daughter.
    She was the burst of joy in her mobile phone greeting: “Hi, you have phoned Allison Baden-Clay. I’m unable to take your call right now, but if you leave your name, number and a short message, I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. Thanks for calling and have a great day! Bye!”
    She was your neighbour two doors down; the mum on tuckshop the first Tuesday of every month; the mum going a little over-the-top for her daughter’s birthday party; your best friend who listens more than she talks, gives tender insights that nail exactly how you’re feeling.
    She was the girl dressed up on a ballet stage, aged 11; a gentle and flickering flame in a strange big world full of wonder and tragedy.
    And she was the 43-year-old woman who bottled up her thoughts, never wanting to worry her family and friends; always the one being leaned on, refusing to lean on anybody else.
    On Valentine’s Day this year, a text message landed in Allison’s phone. It was from her best friend, Kerry-Anne Walker. It read: “A heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others.”
    The depth of sorrow being felt by the community of Brookfield today is a mirror reflection of the depth of love the community had for Allison Baden-Clay.
    She was born at Corinda Private Hospital on July 1, 1968 – the second child to Geoff and Priscilla Dickie, between older sister Vanessa and younger brother Ashley.
    Born to dance, she was knocking them dead at the age of four.
    Confident, but not boisterous, says her father, Geoff.
    “She was like me,” he says. “She probably had the same nature as I had. Calming. She would take a problem and just be calm with it and solve it.”
    This is where she grew up: Spencer St in working-class Redbank Plains, a dead-end street with the odd Department of Housing home where kids dump shopping trolleys stolen from the nearby Redbank Plaza.
    This is her old house: the dark brick, low-set place on the corner with the gum tree, the kind kids carve in the initials of their first true loves.
    Her old neighbour at the end of the street, retired manual arts teacher Rob Kane, 76, remembers when the street was mostly bushland and a teenaged Allison Dickie – from a quiet, gentle, ordinary family, no hassles – could roam free in an area as safe as houses.
    From here she made the daily hike to her beloved Ipswich Girls’ Grammar School. “We met in Grade 8 in 1981,” recalls long-time friend Margaret Cook. “We were together all the way through senior in 1985.”
    Margaret remembers the way her friend could dance up a storm. She remembers how popular she was at school and how her popularity was simply a reflection of her nature.
    Margaret was school captain in her final year, a graduating class of 92 girls. Allison was her vice-captain.
    She remembers Allison choreographing the school’s Rock Eisteddfod in Year 12, using all that knowledge gained as a six-year member of the Australian Youth Ballet.
    But the thing she remembers most about Allison was her laugh.
    “A lovely laugh,” she says. “Always so happy. She was a bright spark. She was one of those people that the world is better for having.”
    Her mum and dad, Geoff and Priscilla, say that too. That gorgeous laugh. One of her greatest assets. Good looks, sharp as a tack and a laugh that could melt the hardest heart.
    “She had a great laugh,” Geoff says. “She called me ‘Geoffy, Geoffy’. ‘Hey Geoffy’.
    “She used to have this funny sense of humour, in that you’d think she didn’t get the joke, but then an hour later she’d start chuckling to herself,” says Kerry-Anne. “She’d start chuckling to herself in the corner and you’d be like ‘What the hell are you laughing about?’, and it was because she just started thinking about it and thought it was funny.
    “She was just always happy, never got cross, never angry.
    “Al never took herself too seriously. She was happy to have a laugh even if it was at herself. She had a cheeky sense of humour and often played the joker just to make everyone feel better in a crisis – as much as a crisis we thought we were experiencing at high school. Oh, hindsight is a wonderful thing.”


    • Thank you Thinker- this is such a beautiful piece of writing and it so totally reflects the Allison we have come to know through tragic circumstance. One thing I feel very sure of – one would not be able to find such a piece of writing anywhere for her husband, or any of this family members for that matter. It is such a tremendous pity that these two people who were on such different life trajectories’s worlds collided…


      • Yes indeed, so very poignant and an insight into who Allison was to those who knew her best. Thank you, Thinker.

        What really stands out to me reading this piece is that Allison was calm and worked out how to solve problems. In the environment she found herself with the BC clan and her callous husband, how soul-destroying that must’ve been, that she couldn’t “work it out” and find a solution. Certainly not while one partner in the relationship was hell-bent on furthering his career (?!) and living the high-life (?!) and treating her with utter contempt. My heart breaks for what she must have gone through.

        The other thing is that stands out is Allison’s sense of humour, how she always appeared happy and tried to cheer others up. I’ve met one person like her, who is so unselfish and caring that they are content to do this, no matter how they are being torn apart in their own lives. It’s a true gift and as her high-school friend says “She was one of those people that the world is better for having.” A rare person, who is no longer in the world. I think that’s what makes so many of us frustrated and indignant about this case.


    • What a beautiful reflection on Allison’s life. What an utterly positive person. Positively brimming with fun and laughter and positivity. Also shows her lovely down to earth nature. (This type of nature is utterly contagious in the loveliest of ways!)
      Thank you for sharing Thinker.


  25. I’m hoping this talented group can come up with an explanation to a simple matter that has been troubling me (and a subject well out of the jurisdiction of Relationships Australia).
    Why does Gerbil have a tan?
    I can’t believe he spends sufficient time in the exercise yard (danger city!)
    Solariums have been outlawed.
    Could it possibly be that his few visitors stopped smooching long enough to smuggle in fake tanning lotion?
    Does the skin of rodents naturally darken as they age?
    Is he one of the blokes who receive letters of undying love from women on the outside?
    How many female correctional officers are in danger of falling under his spell? (Let’s face it, he has form)
    So many questions. So much time to dwell on the possible answers…….


  26. LOL…you guys are funny!!! Thinker, I have no clue, somehow he must get to see the sun a lot …. one wonders if he is getting special treatment in there…..??? Not that this is something I have ever watched out for, but getting fed so much that one picks up many kg in a matter of months in prison (as he did when he first went to prison), and now more healthy looking sporting a suntan….makes one wonder….

    He must be planning to get released an innocent man after his June trial – perhaps grooming himself to the max already so he can take the world by storm then, a free man with a $1 000 000 insurance pay-out….ggrrrrrrr…..


    • He looked the part RIP. I was expecting GBC to look pasty and unwell, as per the court drawing from last year.

      I was shocked, and kept looking to see if it was he.


  27. Hi everyone

    I just found this in the Brisbane Times from 19th April 2013, titled “An open letter from the family and friends of Allison Baden-Clay”

    “A letter from those who loved and knew Allison best: her family and friends.

    In the past 12 months, Allison has been constantly in our thoughts.

    Not for the circumstances and uncertain nature of her passing, but for the wonderful person she was. For the joy she brought to us all.

    And for the lesson of selfless sacrifice she gave through the actions of her everyday life. Regardless of her own struggles and hurdles, Allison never stopped thinking of others first and foremost.

    Allison, who was humble by nature, was extravagant only in her giving. And she gave to all who came into her life, friends and thieves alike. She epitomised what it meant to be a loving mother, wife, daughter, sister, aunty and friend.

    After 12 months, Allison is missed more than ever, and she is most surely not forgotten. We all have special personal memories of the wonderful woman she was.

    She had done so much, yet had so much to live for and oh so much more to do.

    This has been a very public journey for our family and we appreciate everyone’s love and support.

    We, her family and friends, remain overwhelmed by the support from the broader community, and in particular from the Brookfield community who continue to offer love and support for her daughters. Allison too would be overwhelmed, and thankful for all your efforts.

    We must live as Allison did with goals to help us strive for excellence, with love for one another; with respect, and to put the happiness of others above our own.

    Life we have learnt is precious, and too short.

    We often cry because her life has come to an end but we also smile because we were privileged to have her in our lives.

    A high achiever, a model mum and unselfish soul all of which were achieved under sometimes challenging circumstances yet she rose above any adversity and endured many difficulties yet she still loved.

    She has impacted each of our lives yet she had a far greater impact on the world because of her nature, character and kind soul. A heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others and Allison was loved so much.

    A year on from her death and we celebrate her life, her love and her strength each and every day.

    She will remain forever in our hearts.”

    Read more:


    • Very beautifully said, thanks Sad for Allison. Allison clearly was a very special person. May her spirit and loving kindness live on in her 3 girls.


      • I wonder how Allison’s family and friends are feeling now, with it coming up to two years since her death. I’m sure for them there is a great deal of trepidation looking at the trial ahead of them. It’s wonderful that they hold their memories of Allison close and dear, no matter how she died, but choose instead to remember what she meant to them and the person she was when she was alive.


  28. Hi Everyone,

    A very good article, with a good summary of GBC’s finances, TMcH’s statement and Forensic testimony:

    Baden-Clay murder case: court hears of three other women

    LOVE and money: the details of both alleged motives for Gerard Baden-Clay murdering his wife Allison were laid bare yesterday.

    Mistress Toni McHugh told Brisbane Magistrates Court she had rekindled her long-running affair with Baden-Clay in the months before his wife, a former Ipswich Girls’ Grammar student, went missing.

    She said he told her they would one day have a “normal relationship” after more than three years in secret, that he was just getting his financial affairs in order so he could divorce his wife.

    But she said she learned through police, a month after Allison went missing, that he was having affairs with two other women.

    In the lead-up to Baden-Clay’s arrest for murder and interfering with a corpse, Ms McHugh said he told her she needed to “fall in love with someone else” and told her he did not kill his wife.

    “One time he did tell me that he was calling to tell me he did not know what had gone wrong, that he wasn’t responsible for anything that had happened,” she said.

    “He loved me, I loved him. We confirmed that.”

    Baden-Clay stands accused of murdering wife Allison at their Brookfield home on April 19 last year and then disposing of her body under the Kholo Creek Bridge, near Ipswich.

    Prosecutor Dan Boyle told the court the Crown meant to prove Baden-Clay murdered his wife because he stood to benefit almost $1 million upon her death and he had promised Ms McHugh he would leave his wife by July 1.


    • Gerard was “getting his finances in order so he could divorce his wife”, what baloney, how was he doing this? More smokescreens and mirrors, Toni, like they would ever “one day have a normal relationship”. I think GBC’s idea of normal would set most of our minds reeling. Let’s not forget that at the same time GBC was seeing a counsellor with Allison saying that he wants to put the past behind him and make his marriage with his wife work. So which one is it? I doubt that GBC himself even knew the answer to this.

      Gee Toni, the police have told you GBC had affairs with 2 other women, and he himself has told you you “need to fall in love with someone else”, how much clearer could the picture be? This is possibly the reason that TMcH turned into a witness for the prosecution. That and the fact that she’s possibly been granted some form of immunity (whatever form that takes.)

      If Gerard “didn’t know what had gone wrong” (with Allison missing) and “he wasn’t responsible for what happened” you have to ask did Gerard ever take responsibility for anything in his life? He appeared to play the blame game, like blaming Allison for all the disappointments in his life (to the counsellor Carmel Ritchie). Hey Gerard, do you think perhaps there’s a tiny possibility that you disappointed/failed others close to you in your own life? Including your own children who, if you are found guilty of your wife’s murder, are effectively now orphans? Of course not, as you live in your own parallel universe.


  29. Part 2

    Baden-Clay needed money after realty business hit by 2011 flood

    UPDATE 3.45pm: Murder accused Gerard Baden-Clay’s real estate business “never recovered” from a sales drop after the 2011 floods, an investigative accountant has testified.

    Kelly Beckett, who works for the Queensland Police Service, said the father of three “was in financial distress” because there was a dip in revenue and sales volume.

    She said he was borrowing from family and friends instead of traditional banking sources because he had little collateral to offer as security.

    Ms Beckett said the financial distress also could be noted through the fact his business partners had withdrawn, he had maxed out credit cards and had a $1200 shortfall on interest payments across debts.

    She said he had entered payment arrangements with creditors to pay off debts.

    Ms Beckett said she had analysed the “financial position” of Baden-Clay, his wife Allison and related companies on April 20, 2012.

    She said the assets outweighed the liabilities, with a net positive equity at $74,663.

    But Ms Beckett said they could not be liquidated easily and was dependent on valuation of the assets.

    She said her assessment included purchase costs of motor vehicles, life insurance policies, managed funds, share portfolios, savings accounts and a rent roll.

    Ms Beckett said a Paradise Point property was assessed as worth $570,000, via a bank valuation during refinancing in 2008.

    But she said she was aware the properly sold for $440,000 in September, 2012.

    Ms Beckett said there was $72,000 in assets, including term deposits and cash that could be liquidated.

    But she said there was $1.179 million in debt to third parties that might attract interest and principal repayments.

    There was also $330,000 in loans from family and friends where interest was not enforced, but another $846,000 would have required interest payments, she had calculated.

    “The monthly principal payment in the months just prior to Allison going missing was $6600 a month,” Ms Beckett said.

    “Only $5400 was being paid with a shortfall of $1200 a week.”

    Ms Beckett said a Suncorp margin loan at $500 a month and Westpac credit card at $700 a month were not being paid.

    “The credit card was over the limit and had no payments made for two and a half months prior to Allison going missing,” she said.

    Under cross-examination from Baden-Clay’s barrister Peter Davis, Ms Beckett agreed she had three attempts to create a balance sheet for the Baden-Clays.

    He said she had three goes and she was “still out by $40,000″.

    Ms Beckett said Mr Davis’ argument was logical.

    Mr Davis also asked whether Baden-Clay was entitled to make a hardship application because of his position.
    Ms Beckett said she had “seen no evidence that an application had taken place”.

    Mr Davis questioned why Ms Beckett was not assessing the cash, fixed overheads and the projected income from commissions not yet settled.

    He said there was $25,000 overheads, two thirds of which were “actually covered by virtually guaranteed income off the rent roll”.

    Ms Beckett said she did look at settled sales using the company’s MYOB accounting program but had not been provided with any other records for incoming commissions.

    “It would be proper accounting not to raise that until settlement had occurred?” Mr Davis asked.

    Ms Beckett agreed.

    “So MYOB will not tell you what income is going to come in so why didn’t you look at what settlements were coming up?” he asked.

    Ms Beckett said she was “not provided with that information”.

    She agreed there had been a “gentle incline in the net profit” in the business from the October-December 2011 quarter to the April quarter.

    “So the businesses, after suffering the disasters of the flood are improving aren’t they? Mr Davis asked.

    Ms Beckett argued Baden-Clay was not extracting rent payments and salaries so he did not have the same expenses.


    • GBC had little collateral because he big-noted himself to clients implying that he owned his property in Brookfield, which he clearly did not. For someone who had “studied accounting” he sure made a mess of his own finances. Begging family and friends for loans, including Bruce Flegg, poor Gerard, what a mess he was in.

      Most of his “assets” were term deposits and share-holdings (ah, but there were also insurance policies that might assist in the dilemma!) What a shame he made a loss on the Paradise Point property, even though he managed to effect the sale while in Arthur Gorrie. It’s good that the proceeds are now frozen pending the outcome of his trial.

      No wonder that with “$1.179 million in debt to third parties” he couldn’t afford a divorce. Poor Gerard, what a dilemma to be in!


  30. Part 3

    Blood found inside Baden-Clay’s car belonged to Allison

    UPDATE 3pm: A forensic scientist has testified blood found inside the Baden-Clays’ eight-week old car belonged to Allison Baden-Clay.

    Senior scientist Amanda Reeves, from Queensland Forensic Services, said she got a complete DNA profile from the blood stain swab and matched it to the Brookfield mother of three.

    “The DNA obtained from the sample matched the reference DNA profile of Allison Baden-Clay,” she said.

    Ms Reeves said she also tested matter found beneath Allison’s fingernails to see if she could find any DNA matches.

    She said she got one incomplete DNA profile but it was unsuitable for DNA profiling.

    Ms Reeves said cells could break down during decomposition and could be washed off if the body was submerged in water.

    The court has previously heard Allison’s body was so decomposed that a cause of death could not be identified.

    Photographs of long, wide scratches to husband Gerard Baden-Clay’s face have repeatedly been shown to the court, with at least four medical professionals suggesting they were fingernail marks.

    Experts have testified it was unlikely the body was submerged in water but it was found on the muddy banks of Kholo Creek, near Ipswich, 10 days after she went missing.


    • With all the circumstantial evidence in this case, Allison’s blood in the Captiva might be the thing convicts him. It’s hard to explain, “she cut herself and bled profusely in the back of her own car”. There was evidence of cleaning of the rear seats and doorway of the Captiva, which is also difficult for the defence to explain. Even in death, Allison left her marks which is so sad but good in a way, since she no longer has a voice. Her blood in the car, and scratch marks all over GBC’s face. Pity about that, even though her body was left so long that the cause of death could not be determined, those marks on his face were enough for Kieron Ash to raise the alert early on.


  31. Part 4

    Allison Baden-Clay knew of affairs six months before death: court

    EARLIER: Mother of three Allison Baden-Clay placed restrictions on her husband Gerard’s activities after finding out about his affair six months before she died.

    Mistress Toni McHugh told Brisbane Magistrates Court that Allison found out in September, 2011, which is when Baden-Clay ended the three-year affair.

    She said Allison placed a curfew on him and made sure she could read any text messages he received.

    Ms McHugh said Baden-Clay inferred his wife was “angry and didn’t trust him”.

    He said she knew they were having counselling sessions and had been told to speak about the affair for 15 minutes each night.

    Ms McHugh said she would meet Baden-Clay in coffee shops and he would tell her he could “foresee he would be out of the relationship by the end of the year”.

    “I doubted our relationship from the outset … as being a normal relationship,” she said.

    “I was constantly asking him, trying to get indicators of any progressing towards leaving his marriage.

    “He never sat down at a coffee shop and said ‘I’m leaving my wife tomorrow’.

    “I pressed him for a date, I wanted certainty.

    “I had never pressed for a date previously.

    “The end of the relationship in September was horrid and I wasn’t going to set my self up for the same experience.

    “So I was far more determined to get some time frame around what on earth he was doing.”

    Ms McHugh said Baden-Clay told her he could not afford a divorce, in terms of the business.

    “He was not in a financial position to afford a divorce,” he said.

    “I took that as part of the reason he wasn’t able to leave.”

    Baden-Clay told mistress they should ‘lie low’ after Allison went missing: court

    10am: Murder accused Gerard Baden-Clay told his mistress Toni McHugh they should “lie low” the day he reported his wife Allison missing.

    Ms McHugh told Brisbane Magistrates Court that she rang Baden-Clay during a lunch break at a real estate conference on April 20 last year because she had noticed Allison was not at the conference.

    “As soon as I said hello, he sounded distressed,” she said.

    “He said ‘Allison’s gone missing’.

    “I said ‘what do you mean?’. I was shocked she had gone missing.

    “I asked ‘what’s triggered this? Did you argue?. He said ‘no, we didn’t argue’.

    “He was not in a position to be talking.

    “I told him I loved him.

    “He did say … that we wouldn’t be able to talk. He suggested that we lie low.”

    Baden-Clay stands accused of murdering wife Allison at their Brookfield home on April 19 last year and then disposing of her body under the Kholo Creek Bridge, near Ipswich.

    Ms McHugh said Baden-Clay next rang her on April 21, and told her police knew about the relationship and would contact her.

    “He told me to tell the truth,” she said.

    Barrister Peter Davis asked Ms McHugh whether she was a suspect.

    She said she was warned of her rights but it did not cross her mind that she would be suspect.

    “I’ve only got the truth to tell and I was there to help,” she said.

    “I had no reason to fear from anything I said in the statement.”

    Ms McHugh said she first met Baden-Clay in 2005-06 when he ran Century 21 business with his parents.

    Later in April, 2007, Ms McHugh looked up the career page on the Century 21 website.

    She said she considered Baden-Clay’s real estate business because he had been her agent, she had spoken to his mother and he had been working in property management at another company.

    “I felt there was a familiarity and I felt comfortable with the way they conducted their real estate business,” she said.

    Ms McHugh said the relationship began in August, 2008, because she could link it to properties she was selling at the time and they used that month as a starting point.

    Ms McHugh said she ended her relationship but it was not because Baden-Clay suggested he would leave his wife.

    “I had a difficult relationship for many years,” she said.

    “My decision to end the relationship with Rob was based on still having a respect for him, not being able to remain in an unfaithful relationship.”

    Ms McHugh said they tried to keep the affair private from Allison Baden-Clay and their real estate work colleagues.

    She said business partner Jocelyn Frost confronted her a few months after she began working there and she was shocked, not confirming her suspicions for months.

    “It was an attempt (to keep it quiet) but it wasn’t successful,” she said.

    Ms McHugh said they had tried to maintain a relationship at work that presented as nothing more than friendship.

    “Gerard and I discussed the fact we were working closely with people we trusted and respected, and we decided they were going to be suspicious and it was best to be upfront with them,” she said.

    Ms McHugh said there had been some discussion about their future.

    “There had always been a promise there would be a time when things would be normal,” she said.

    Ms McHugh said it went for more than three years but Baden-Clay told her it must end on September 14, 2011, and she resigned.

    She said she was angry and hurt, wanted an explanation and wanted to continue the relationship.

    But Ms McHugh said nothing happened again until December when they met in a coffee shop.

    “The conversation was around him wanting to give me some indication that he didn’t plan to be in the marriage indefinitely,” she said.

    “He told me he was going to one day come to me unconditionally.

    “He was going to maintain his marriage in the short term.

    “He needed to remain in this marriage.”

    Ms McHugh said they agreed the relationship would not be sexual but then between February and April, 2012, they had “physical contact” twice.

    Prosecutor Dan Boyle has told the court the Crown intended to prove Baden-Clay had strong motive – pointing to almost $1 million he stood to benefit if his wife died, the significant financial debts he had and the affair with Toni McHugh, where he promised in an email that he would leave his wife by July 1.



    • It’s heart-breaking to imagine Allison’s state of mind, not trusting GBC and wanting to read all his texts – who wouldn’t having a serial adulterer and liar of a husband like hers? I don’t recall the figures now, but GBC had an extraordinary number of aliases and fake identities in his email accounts (was it 24?), not to mention who knows how many mobile phones. It would be like a night-marish tangled web to keep track of a husband like that!

      Allison “was angry and didn’t trust him”, who could blame her as she’d also found out that he was conducting the affair with TMcH in secret trysts in the family car, Snowy, which the family used to transport their daughters around in!

      When TMcH rang GBC at lunch-time on the day of the conference to say Allison was not there (after the drama she’d caused the night before when she found out Allison was planning on attending the conference) GBC says he and Allison didn’t argue. What the hell! This just beggars belief given the testimony from neighbours of the events and shouting/screaming coming from the GBC house on 19th April, the night before, hearing screeching of tyres etc. It was just a nice calm little discussion going on in the BC house that night, was it? If nothing else the Jury will learn early on that GBC was the consummate liar, which then leaves them with which part of his ‘truth’ do they believe?


      • No-one can believe any “truth” from GBC. There was reference made to GBC “Looking after his parents” in a recent discussion, if my recollection is correct, their private phone/mobile/email account was astronomical. Makes one wonder if the money from the business, paying the parent’s bills, was costed properly, too.


        • I second that Moonlight – I do not trust anything that comes out of GBC or his family members’ mouths even under oath after what has transpired to date. I do not know if they are all delusional and can not distinguish between truth and fiction, or if they just do not care for the truth. But they have underestimated the ability of the general public to recognise lies.


          • RIP, looking back through those statements (thanks Moonlight for posting) now seems to give such a clear view of the ease of lie-telling: that first interview with the classic ums and ers and over-detailing, and a big clue towards someone’s natural inclination to be deceitful with the explanation to the poor, silly coppers of how ‘find my iPhone’ works so well when someone’s trying to follow your movements.
            I think it’s that their truth is what’s convenient to them, what they themselves want to believe and they are just so caught up in it that they simply can’t see what to other rational people, sticks out like cohones on a chihuahua IYKWIM


          • Well said RIP Allison.

            There is something seriously wrong with the whole family, the lack of a moral compass being the first to come to mind.

            Their collective behaviour has been bizarre from the beginning of this awful tale.

            Dare I suggest that if they didn’t live in the so-called “leafy suburbs of Brisbane,” some greater scrutiny may have been applied from Day One?

            I’m not criticising the police here, just wondering if intervention from people ‘in high places’ actually somewhat stalled their suspicions in those crucial early days.


            • GHS I believe the sheriffs knew exactly what was what from day 1.
              Maybe some help initially from Lofty Heights (!) for the BC family to get phones and lawyers, legal, advice and such to help Dullard Son but certainly no interference or manipulation of investigation – other than Not Helping, of course….I think from Day 1 the likely outcome of this investigation was so patently obvious to those involved that any blundering attempt to interfere or Pull Strings would have been way too dangerous, even for the Leafy Set. Too high profile and all that, maybe?


  32. This is a message sent to all Show Society Members of the Brookfield Show Society, on Monday, 23rd April, 2012, at 7.17pm.

    In affect, residents, through their membership of Brookfield Show Society, were asked to search for Allison, knowing that in our area, there is a lot of scrubby land as well as mine shafts at Brookfield. A lot of this farming area and ex farming area, is a horse riding community. We have trails and short cuts, through council land and resident’s land; in Pullenvale, building sites, that are known by residents, areas that aren’t occupied; furthermore, due to the fact that there is Council owned land that weaves along where a freeway/road was to be built, gazetted from the 60’s, this area also was of course searched. Residents searched as a community.

    What did GBC and capable family members who where of his generation do to help with the search? Nothing. How can anyone lose a loved one, dog, horse, child, wife, and NOT LOOK!!!! Unless…………

    Queensland Police seek your help in search

    Message from Qld Police Service to the residents of
    Brookfield, Upper Brookfield, Kenmore and Pullenvale.

    Police have appreciated your support in attempting to
    locate Allison Baden- Clay who was reported missing on
    Friday, 20 April 2012.

    It is essential that we cover as much of an area
    as we can to find Allison.

    We believe the best way you, the Brookfield community,
    can currently assist us in the search for Allison is to
    have you search your own properties and report to police
    anything unusual that is located. As land holders you will
    be familiar with your own properties, and your efforts will
    easily identify anything out of the ordinary.

    Police have targeted SES and police resources to particular
    areas but if we could have you thoroughly search your own properties
    – this will assist us immensely.

    If you find anything, call 131 444 and register your property search.



  33. Moonlight, I seem to remember the BC’s were all very busy in those early days consulting with lawyers or hunkering down in skull manor discussing how to get out of their dilemma. It would have been an eye-opener if one could have been a fly on those walls then….
    They did not feel a need to look for Allison it seems, perhaps because they all knew where she was and did not want her found anyway for at least a week or more. They seemingly could not even bring themselves to pretend that they were concerned and looking for her. This while Allison’s own parents were feeding and watering searchers in spite of feeling what must have been a gut-wrenching fear for her life.
    Won’t it be wonderful if neighbours did in fact find item/s of interest….which we may only find out about during the trial!

    I wonder how much of those early days’ discussions in skull manor the kids would have overheard?
    I also wonder if anyone could ever identify the jersey Allison was found in…I seem to remember it was an odd brand and size, too big for Allison.

    So many questions to be answered in June….


    • Yes, RIP, so many questions to be answered in June. The dichotomy between the actions and emotions of the Dickies and Baden-Clays speaks volumes, from when Allison was reported missing up to the present.

      Who knows what was found when locals searched their properties. I keep hope alive that Allison’s phone was found! I think there’s so much evidence awaiting us that the public have no knowledge of. It’s sure going to be one eye-opener when the trial unfolds.


  34. It will be interesting if we find during the trial that this appeal for people to look out for any items of interest may have yielded something.

    The BC’s seemed focused on legal consultations and hunkering down in skull manor in the early days…too busy to look for Allison….or was it futile since they perhaps all knew where she was anyway and did not want her found for a week or more??? They seemingly could not even bring themselves to pretend to be concerned and help look for her….this while Allison’s parents were feeding and watering searchers while they must have felt a gut-wrenching fear for her life….especially after observing the bizarre BC behaviour as GHS also mentions above.

    It would indeed have been very insightful if one could have been a fly on those skull manor walls in the early days…. One wonders too how much of the discussions that went on there the kids may have overheard…

    I also wonder about something else…that strangely over-sized (beige?) jersey that Allison was found in….I wonder if its owner had been positively identified….it seemed so not Allison…so like it belonged to an older and ‘bigger’ person…..???


    • Sorry guys for posting a similar post twice…I did not see it for quite some time, thought I had clicked the wrong button or something and didn’t post it. Now suddenly they are both up here!


  35. A question: does anyone think that this tragedy would have happened without the contributions of Ms McHugh?

    “Gerard then told me that our relationship had to end. I was upset….however ceased all contact with Gerard”

    And in the very next breath…
    ” I would often make attempts to contact Gerard via phone or email to which he did not reply or respond. I was beginning to realise that our relationship was over”

    And then..
    ” In February of 2012 I had started to contact Gerard regularly via phone…..several times a week”

    “I then told Gerard that I wasn’t to be made to feel guilty for this”

    Well no of course not, how could you be made to feel guilty? People only feel guilty when they have morals and ethics, and clearly you do not let those mere bagatelles stand in the way of what you want, Ms McHugh. Sorry dear, but you DO bear some responsibility for what has happened and I personally hope it weighs on you for the rest of your days.


    • Yes, Tishy, I so agree with you. From the phone records, TMcH made way more calls and sent way more texts to GBC than he did (having said that, he was also a ‘little busy’ with a few other admirers on the side, but hey, what can a bloke do?) She comes across as very needy and reminds me of Gittany’s girlfriend with regards to her mentality of denial. Yes, Toni had left her partner for GBC, but it was clear surely that his mind was elsewhere. She says that he never met her in a coffee shop and said ‘I’m going to leave my wife’, and yet she kept pressing him for a date. I have no doubt that events escalated on the night of 19th April due to pressures brought to bear on GBC by Toni McHugh. I wonder how she’ll go as a witness for the prosecution.


      • IMO she is a lying, deluded stalker and he only made contact with her when he couldn’t get a root somewhere else. It would have been hard work for him to have to put up with all the whingeing just to get laid.
        Apologies for the coarseness but I do believe that’s how he thinks.


    • Yes Tishy, TMcH seems pivotal in the case. She was very pushy about having GBC all to herself, hell bent on breaking up that marriage, very insistent on GBC NOT allowing Allison to go to the Real estate conference (why should that be such a big deal – Allison knew about her and surely there would have been many people and they did not have to even come close to each other?) and I seem to remember she sent him numerous reminders to pick up some portraits of them that they had taken (what for one wonders, especially since I seem to remember he took them home on 19 April…?) Am I remembering correctly?

      It seems neither her nor GBC was quite rational any more. They lived in some parallel universe where deceit, subterfuge and false names were ‘normal’, and it is not even clear if they were truly on the same page. I get the impression she was pushing very hard to ensure GBC keeps his promise to her. I will not be entirely surprised if it comes out that she knew the dark implication of what would be necessary for him to keep it. Or that she was involved either on a mobile phone or in person on the night in some support role.

      The 3 BC family members and TMCH are all still on my POI list at this stage as far as potential accomplices are concerned. Will have to wait and see what unfolds…


      • The point about the conference is an interesting one. My theory FWIW is that she felt at a disadvantage were there to be a confrontation; and that if GM were forced to choose thereafter, it wouldn’t be her who was the Chosen One. She was looking to avoid that happening; or perhaps asserting her power?
        We really must teach our children to be Choosers rather than Choos-ees.


        • Yes Tishy, the severe reaction re the conference is a bit odd. Allison knew about her, so would not have been surprised, and being a conflict avoider I do not believe Allison would have made any scene there in front of hundreds of people. So why the big deal about the conference.

          It sounds to me as if she was really just turning the screws on GBC very tight – reminds him of his promise, instructs him Allison is NOT to come to the conference, and reminds him to pick up portraits of them to take home….???? If this is not a recipe for the mother of all fights between GBC and Allison, then I don’t know what is.

          I think she was manipulating the situation for that marriage to come to an end asap.


          • Yep absolutely agree. I should add conniving and manipulative to my earlier description. Oh and dumb – if she thought Allison might make a scene; maybe jealous? That it being a real estate conference, Allison would be getting all the Mrs GBC-style attention which rightfully belonged t


  36. That Tishy, and who knows what promises she made of a financial nature, maybe even just a place to live (after all he didn’t own his own home) which may have crossed his mind as a good option at the time – albeit temporary. Using people to get what he wanted and all that, no emotions involved.


  37. Exactly, SFA. The price of the place to live at no cost would have been putting up with the whingeing about commitment but also the side benefit of some adoring GG to do the Wife Stuff such as remind him to pick kids up etc. doesn’t it make you puke.


  38. You have no idea how relieved I am to find you guys!! Thought I’d lost some treasured friends in a puff of smoke. Ok if I join you? 🙂


    • Hello spyhop, lovely to find you here! I notice you have a slightly ‘new’ addage but I’d recognise that beak anywhere! We’re like lost friends coming together again, and it’s wonderful to have a supportive community all here with a common concern for Allison and her family. If you know others lost in the wilderness please tell them where we are.


    • Oh wow!

      Spyhop is here!!

      Fantastic news – a smile will be plastered on my face for the rest of the day!

      (Way too many exclamations marks, I know, but I am EXCITED!!)


  39. Wow – what a lovely welcome eeeeeh 🙂 Sorry it took me a while to catch on to change of venue. If you’ve ever seen the Leonardo DiCaprio movie The Beach, I kinda feel like I’ve just jumped the waterfall into paradise… now take me to meet leader ‘Sal’ lol.

    PS – my account name is under callmespyhop but I used to be able to change it within response box before posting. Either, either the beak is me!


  40. TM should take a long hard look at this picture ^^^^^ and what it represents in terms of her ongoing relationship with GBC & what the future potentially held in store.

    Here we have an aging pile of old faithful wares, not considered valuable enough for safe permanent storage – but the intention to continue using is still there all the same. Has no place in the home, so we’ll just keep it tucked away out of eye’s view. Not considered overly valuable – not insured.

    Gerard’s little treasure trove:

    A portable shag pod – for ‘upgrade’ night on Mill Road.
    A rat infested mattress for lounge room sleepovers.
    A closet full of skeletons.
    A tarp (make of that what you will).
    A smokescreen (?).
    A cross.


  41. WOW Spyhop…..I have been in a spring-cleaning mood since the start of the year, it sure is interesting how we hold onto ‘stuff’ no longer used, but for some reason has enough significance to hang onto. So silly, and I am determined to stop doing this.

    I have forgotten about this pic….interesting collection of ‘held onto’ items ….the cross is particularly odd – I wonder what the purpose of that was?


  42. Things are moving forward at last with the pre-trial hearing for GBC’s case being held in Brisbane yesterday.

    “Jurors in the murder trial of accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay could be polled by lawyers to see if they are biased .

    The Supreme Court in Brisbane was yesterday told the quizzing of likely jurors was one of a range of pre-trial issues that needed to be clarified before Baden-Clay’s trial started in June.

    Baden-Clay affair: ‘I blame Allison’

    Justice John Byrne, who will preside at the trial, read from a list of items raised by prosecutors Todd Fuller QC and Danny Boyle and Baden-Clay’s legal team Michael Byrne QC and criminal law solicitor Peter Shields.

    He said one issue requiring a future hearing was the topic of proposed questions to be put to potential jurors.”

    And naturally, GBC would blame Allison for his affair(s) wouldn’t he, like he blamed her for everything.

    See here:


  43. Come to think about it ….. They insisted on suicide to start with. Then when the chips were down, they tried a character assassination of the deceased. At the same time, trying paint the accused as a wonderful bloke.
    The Judge saw through the whole charade though.


      • Perhaps this will be the defence’s downfall if that’s the way they decide to argue it. The logistics just don’t add up. Has GBC’s defence team come up with a plausible reason of how Allison came to be found 12-14km from their home, without a vehicle at the Kholo Bridge? Did she drive there and someone stole the vehicle afterwards? But both family cars were found at home. Did someone give her a lift there perhaps? Or did she walk this distance and then throw herself off the bridge? How then did her body come to lie somewhat under the bridge?

        Would a mother and daughter such as Allison was by all accounts we have of her, leave no suicide note for her children or parents? Psychologists could perhaps answer this question better that I.

        The Zoloft red-herring hasn’t worked in the bail application hearings, as the autopsy report found that Allison did not have sufficient medication in her system to cause her death. So not death by chemical ingestion, which leaves her jumping over the bridge.

        How then to explain the plant matter from the family home in Brookfield in her hair and clothing? The chipped tooth and possible blunt trauma to her chest wall? The sliver of a latex glove found at autopsy? There are so many holes in this defence, I can’t but think they’d lose if they try it.

        I think we may be surprised by something else the defence might have been cooking up, in the years they’ve had to think about it. Or maybe, just maybe, GBC is the bright spark who’s dictating to his defence how he wants to play it! A part of me thinks that’s a distinct possibility, he who has blamed others and had his family cover up for him all his life.


  44. Very well said SFA.
    The Zoloft story is wearing thin. Worse for the Clay clan, the amount found in her system can not be, and never before in history has been in sufficient amount to cause death.
    Therefore, some more lateral or creative thinking will need to be done on the part of team clay.
    I am thinking right now about Daniel Morcombe (God rest his soul) and Cowan’s defence team fighting tooth and nail for his innocence, (To hell with the victim or his family!) Even in the face of overwhelming video evidence, where the accused actually admitted his crime, together with all details.
    Another thing that struck me was: What exactly IS the face of evil supposed to look like?
    Apart from the one vile photo with his tongue stuck out, he looked liked butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. Fun, young, and stupid. That’s when I thought about GBC over again with his “innocent” face.


  45. Hi Sad for Allison,

    There really is nothing to support suicide – it won’t cut the mustard.

    They can lie all they like but the TRUTH is what it is and can’t be changed. I believe it will out. There are just way too many telling behaviours, ridiculous ‘coincidences’ and facts which do not add up, and we probably only know a fraction of it. The public is not stupid and neither will the judge or jury be.

    It is such a pity that people like this have no regard for the truth and will lie shamelessly to the bitter end, just like Brett Cowan did. But lies can be seen through, and won’t save them. If we as members of the public can see through the BC’s, I think we can be pretty sure the judge and jurors will have no trouble with this.

    They’ve been given a long rope….I am optimistic that justice will be served.

    That’s probably why they worry about the jurors, since 90+ % of the population it is glaringly obvious that GBC lied through his teeth from the start. To me, guilt oozed out of every pore of his during that initial TV interview with lip-biting Sis who IMO knew all about it too. So are they going to try and seek out jurors from the 5% or so of people who had been living under a rock for the past 2 years and not seen or heard anything about the case or even have an opinion? Good luck to them.

    Even that will not change the TRUTH!


  46. Agree totally RIP. And unless the Judge is completely stupid or a moron (highly unlikely), this matter will be seen the same way as that other “innocent” Simon Gittany. (He murdered his partner and claimed she suicided. Even got his family and friends in on the act.)
    And it will also be seen in the same light as that other “innocent” Brett Cowan, whose sentencing came today 14 March 2014.
    Cowan was found guilty of murdering schoolboy Daniel Morcombe.
    Coincidentally, not one of these murderers showed any remorse, sadness, empathy, sympathy, or any thing at all for a life lost. Similarly nothing for the family of the deceased.
    The most important thing for each of them was to proclaim Innocence and Keep out of Jail. Blame someone or some thing else!
    Each and every one has that in common. Astounding!


    • A reply for all of you dear souls.
      The dominos appear to be falling in the right direction with regard to justice of late.
      Gerbil must be doing what I endured last night in advance of a colonoscopy.
      (Too much information?)


  47. Yes GHS! I see at that Justice Lucy McCallum said the “defiant denial of guilt” of Ms Harnum’s murder only hampered Gittany’s future prospects. The whole family is actively engaged in a protest. It goes towards maintaining the rage and maintaining the denial which is generally seen as an impediment to rehabilitation.”

    I hope the GBC has taken note that a “defiant denial of guilt” is not going to help him or his credibility, indeed quite the opposite. Time will tell but it seems he’s on track to join the likes of Sica, Cowan and Gittany in criminal history….


  48. Welcome to the weekend! Hope everyone is well 🙂 Last night as I was trawling over old news articles & various forum posts, I stumbled across 4 posts by ‘Kay’ tucked away back in June 2012 on AC site. I’d never seen it before and thought I’d re-post here (some of you ‘originals’ may recall it?). Makes for good reading either way. Sorry, this post will be a bit long:


    [kay on June 25, 2012 at 6:04 pm said:]

    I think the Baden-Clay family are not participants or particularly pleased about the problematic situations Gerard created for all of them, financially and getting charged with murder. Especially landing in prison without bail as that curtailed any hopes of Gerard with others assistance locating or earning more money to avert financial losses of other family members. Nonetheless they have been involved in trying to assist him and seen as supportive of him This has had the unfortunate outcome of putting them up to ridicule and being tarnished as persons who can be seen as lacking in true decency and suspect morals.It’s actually a sad tragic fall for this family who have been usually hard working, community contributing, well educated and part of an impressive heritage beyond just Baden-Powell.I’ve no doubts that they and others they are connected to were ready to aid Gerard’s escape promptly once bailed to South Africa starting via a cruise ship and falsified passports in the surname of probably Ovland. Wether Gerard worked there in real estate or the many Overland 4WD tours and caught up with likely investments he could have in the housing markets in South Africa. The Baden-Clay network have never appeared as financially disasterous. Gerard who has been taught and in many ways reflected family competence has ended up the narcisstic traited that cannot handle migration. Many traited narcisstically for some reason end up fullblown narcissists , a law unto themselves in a foreign land without the restraint their homeland can keep in them. They do anything they see as expedient and take no ones advice, becoming dangerous disasters for any connected to them as well as themselves. Gerard’s financial dealings may well have had him generating investigations before Allison disappeared. It’s possibly his phones have been tapped surreptitiously for that purpose. Were that the case his insurance enquiries on Allison’s policies would cause alarm bellsThis may have been reported to police as a concern and maybe some other concerned parties enquiries which caused the instant police response to the missing persons call. Gerard’s greedy stupidity in putting in his claim when the body was found and not yet formally identified made clear his prior role in the disappearance. Claiming promptly after identification can be at least justified by trying to beat red tape delays in obstructing even innocent persons valid collection of payouts. I don’t think the Baden-Clay family anticipated Gerard’s clumsiness in committing a crime or the pace the police investigation would proceed at or that the situation couldn’t be salvaged, money owed and the good family name. To some, as the dead can’t be brought back it’s preferred to reduce the losses of the living. Instead their responses have added to the damage.

    [kay on June 25, 2012 at 7:59 pm said:]

    My earlier lengthier post dealt with the Baden-Powell family. They have been intelligent and competent persons who tend to give a lot to their communities. They have not been narcissistic-ally vain as Gerard turned out, despite sharing the same basis of talents as they had. Finding themselves in a position to feel forced to defend Gerard to salvage money they assumed to have later and the good name of their family.

    They can hardly say via Olivia as spokesperson::
    “We’re very sorry that Gerard stupidly killed , but as nothing will bring back the dead it would be logical to reduce other losses.

    He ought to have just dumped Allison. A divorce settlement in Gerry’s current position, half of nothing is survivable.

    Then he and Toni ought to have gone back to South Africa, mum and Dad following soon.
    There he in real estate and Toni in adventure 4WD tours were to work their butts off so we can recoup what we expected to.
    I can assure you the squeeze we’d put on Gerry for the first half of a decade a would be harsher and fairer than any prison punishment QLD jails could offer over a life sentence.

    If his South Africa(SA) real estate investments are as good as he thinks, he’d have enough for himself for a bit of flash and Toni’s assets as a basis to start with..

    We need him to go over as one of his funny fake names… stupid used Overland and in SA a typo made it into Ovland… that there are a number with that surname of , …so one person is now collecting on his investment… in error…and that needs Gerry to in person fix it with the right fake passport he has.

    Now that reminds me.
    His defense was useless in saying Gerry’s not having a current valid passport was proof of not running away. Even Gerry’s not s
    Actually glad not enough money was raised
    for this useless guy. Fancy saying that they never noted more injury than a chipped tooth, so how could there be any blood?
    I’ve dealt with women abused in helping them, the amount of blood with a strong forced smack with no broken teeth or broken nose can soak a pillow or two. If he tcaused a tooth to get chipped, she’d be bleeding like crazy! This point just brings more attention to Gerry’s killing looking as unnecessarily heavy handed in the hurting her side of it.

    We Baden-Clays and Waltons don’t think its decent or nice to kill your wife, even if she nolonger suits ones needs.Nor does it help get you her insurance money.
    It ends up hurting a lot of people in many ways. Our family is no less disappointed and distressed by Gerard’s lazy short cuts, escapism and rutheless cruelty and as we too want justice for Allison who now in heaven would understand that what we’d have done to him in forcing him to eat humble pie and provide financial restitution for all by our means in SA would have made him pay ltke he’d never hurt so much.
    Gerry we realise isn’t so stupid that he couldn’t have concocted better alternatives in any part of the puzzle. His idiot call after killing was to speed up the investigation and make sure he wouldn’t get to SA under or terms once his finanial mess was to implode. We thought we’d have time to get him over there, but had not kept up with his purosefully partial incriminating extra parts to get locked up, but with no witnesses in three years get off and get the insurance money. Over that time he thought Toni would work her but off dealing with and working in SA to have a good basis for him to go to and the rest of us would patch up other messes or give up on our money. Then he emerges like a wrongly convicted innocent. I can assure you we never knew enough to think that police had so much on him or could act so fast or Gerry had left so many clues for them. There is no way I’d have humiliated myself or let my wimpy husband insist I put my name on things to further what seemed a better type of justice, one that would really make Gerry pay. People like Gerry are impossible once they go their own way. I hope people can understand we aren’t as we’ve been painted and youi’d only understand if you’ve dealt with the twists of narcissism once they panic and fix weirdly with the intent to bring all down so no one can look better than them. The fact is he could have murdered without becoming a suspect, not that that’s good, but he couldn’t bear the stage of financial embarresment in public. So if Gerry’s inconventenced everyone will be more inconvenienced. We apologise for underestimating him, so please limit judgements on us as we’re already kicking ourselves hard enough.

    [kay on June 25, 2012 at 8:48 pm said:]

    Robbo I don’t think that the intensity of the investigation and clearly determined efforts to convict Gerrard are just about speeding up forensics. Sure they can be slower than ideal in some cases, but I gather Allison’s case was treated as a top of the list one. There are tests that do take a longer time to get done. The police misused expectations to get in a point for some simpler tests that take too long though.

    I’m optimistic that at last in one police force that the Baden-Clay case with a perfect oght not to be a victim wife so no question exists on the victim has been used as a case to detter what has been a trend as emerging , more in the US. “the alternative to divorce” being spousal homicide that I saw an article written by a family lawyer. She stated that those committing murder of that type are regular generally law abiding citizens who may even be involved in community charities etc. The animosity in divorces doesn’t seem to perturb moving onto murder and often not convicted if dealt with well enough. Another article was a thoroughly researched one that did find prompt investigation and processing with severe penalties does reduce the number of crimes in most categories.
    The effective fast persual and results may be hoped to reduce dealing with any further types of this kind of crime and the amount of investigations that such cause The pubnlic responses of disgust and making such a person a permanent pariah ought to detter as well. Lets face it Casy Anthony has a very heavy public sentence and in not doing time she won’t be assisted in concealing her identity as time goes on. Both the Baden-Clay and Anthony case are examples of the social payback their relatives get if seen to support these accused perpetrators. QLD police are making divorce courts look the realistic only sane option.

    [kay on June 25, 2012 at 9:29 pm said:]

    To not happy Jan’s question “just curious, does anyone actually know GBC’s siblings have children and if so, will they carry on the Baden-Clay name????”
    At this point in time it doesn’t look like promising to keep the name. GBC has 3 daughters who may not fight to keep their surname over any husbands re the disgrace, Adam the youngest Baden-Clay has a daughter so far only and Olivia being now a Walton is no help there if she has any kids.



  49. Welcome to the weekend! Hope everyone is well 🙂 Last night as I was trawling over old news articles & various forum posts, I stumbled across 4 posts by ‘Kay’ (a supposed BC relative) tucked away back in June 2012 on AC site. I’d never seen them before and thought I’d re-post here (some of you ‘originals’ may recall it?). Makes for good reading either way. (Tried to copy & paste content here but post must be too long sorry)


    (Scroll down on above link towards bottom, there are 4 posts per below)

    [kay on June 25, 2012 at 6:04 pm said:]
    [kay on June 25, 2012 at 7:59 pm said:]
    [kay on June 25, 2012 at 8:48 pm said:]
    [kay on June 25, 2012 at 9:29 pm said:]


    • Thanks Spy Hop, it seems you have been very busy researching in these quiet periods – well done! I don’t personally remember these posts from June 2012, I think this was just after GBC’s arrest from memory?

      Very interesting indeed, to see the viewpoint of GBC’s family in all of this. From Kay’s posts (who as she says is a BC or Walton) they have personally been financially ripped off by GBC and she calls her husband ‘wimpy’ for making her sign a document to possibly lend him money. She states that they didn’t realise they were at the mercy of a narcissist among them who only thought of himself.

      I’m quite staggered by her open admission that the family’s intention was to help him flee to South Africa if he was granted bail, where it seems he has some property investments. What the hell?? The detailed plans for GBC and TMcH’s future in South Africa are quite chilling. Thank God he was never granted bail, free to sail into the sunset to a future his family were planning for him. Kay does say though, that the family would ‘make him pay’ in other ways, which sounds somewhat sinister!

      Does this cast some doubt on the BC’s senior’s role in Allison’s murder, that they’ve been dealt the cards of a narcissistic son who has made everything in their lives turn to sh*t? And that they have no choice but to pick up all the broken pieces of his nasty and malicious life and try to support him through the judicial process? No doubt more details will be revealed at the trial (not long now, a matter of weeks), but it could explain why there’ve been no further arrests since GBC’s.


      • Hi Spy Hop,

        Thank YOU. I am so sorry that posts are captured that way; however, I don’t let them be captured for too long, lol, they need to be here 😀

        Thank you so much 😀


  50. Hi SFA, hope you’re having a nice weekend 🙂

    IF what was written by ‘Kay’ is credible (blimey it is well written if some kind of con!)

    (a) I wonder if this fits with Olivia’s “The truth will come out one day”.

    (b) I also wonder too SFA if this casts doubt on BC Snrs being involved. But, that said, they are guilty of not fessing up what they knew earlier to police. To think how Allison’s loved ones where tormented by the unknown for days before her body was eventually found – if the grand plan didn’t pull off, the BC name would turn brown & people in their inner circle left out of pocket. Kay’s posts also seek to reaffirm that they are good people, contribute a lot blah blah blah. I think that’s bullshit. Good people don’t subject the likes of Mr & Mrs Dickie to prolonged suffering while cheque books are balanced, loans sought & the cash stashed. What if it had been their daughter Olivia murdered & dumped in the mud. Don’t even get me started on the sale of Paradise Point house from under Dickies noses.

    (b) Was Toni aware of the hard working life proposed for her in South Africa? Would she have uprooted her boys, face a possible custody battle with her ex? Doesn’t all slot nicely into place for Toni based on Kay’s scenario. Only fast, magic money could fix everything nicely so that Gerald wouldn’t have to leave/run. She wouldn’t have to help pay off his debts living an uncertain life in a foreign land (where clearly GBC fans are far & few). No need to upset custody arrangements with ex husband. Sons remain safe, attending high school in Brisbane. But where does the cash come from? Enter life insurance policy. Motive for Toni to assist I wonder?? Just how much does Toni McHugh know. Hurry up June!

    Another post I noticed on that same AC page there is mention by a Brookfield school local how the school bus drove past the BC house on Brookfield Rd on way to Friday afternoon sport. By that stage the house had been declared a crime scene and taped. One of the BC girls was on the bus & when a fellow student pointed it out, she said that mum had gone missing & the police were looking for her. The poster also said she could confirm that the girls were dropped off the school & no one was made aware of the events that had unfolded that morning. Olivia just dropped them off & didn’t speak to anyone! How incredibly sad. No ifs or buts, that was a heartless act & not one I’d expect from a fellow mother of young kids & a bible toting Christian.


    • Dear Spy Hop and SFA,

      Thank you for posting this earlier stuff – I don’t recall having seen it before either.

      Sure makes for interesting reading…

      I’ve been off the air lately – but that has given me some time to reflect on abhorrent acts.

      In a relatively short period of time, the justice system has dealt comprehensively with Sica, Bayley, Gittany and Cowan.

      Mr Gerbil must surely be seeing the signs writ large upon his bedroom wall.

      If and when Mr Oscar Preposterous/Precarious meets a similar fate, The Hyphenated Gerbil will be quaking in his rodent boots.


  51. Sheesh…. my post reads like some kind of soap opera now when you toss in a fanciful plot for 2 wayward lovers to ‘escape to South Africa’. Only thing missing is a guy named Ridge lol. (No disrespect to the serious matter at hand).

    If there was/is an existing fake passport arranged for GBC, I wonder if Police have it?


  52. I imagine from the perspective on Adam BC and his wife, GBC has shit on them in a number of ways. Google Adam’s name and it his personal & work achievements around the world now share space with mentions of his accused wife-killing brother in Oz. FB depicts the addition of a baby son post-Allison’s murder. He would be the first/only male grandchild to inherit & carry on the proud BC name…. and look what ‘Uncle Gerard’ has done to it now. Did Adam then chip in for GBC’s bail application? (I’ve got $20k in my head?) I’m going to take a punt & suggest that Adam’s wife wouldn’t be too happy to see a chunk of their savings disappear to help dodgy brother-in-law if they were expecting/planning to extend their young family. I’d be fuming. Her married name is tarnished now too. I’d previously noted that Adam had ‘liked’ Jarrod Bleijie on FB following GBC’s successful application for Legal Aid funding. I saw this as supporting GBC, but maybe it was a sign of relief that they weren’t going to get hit up for $ again?!


  53. Hi Spy Hop

    Yes, I’m having a nice relaxing weekend thanks, and hope you are too? The weekends are just not long enough though!

    So many questions, I agree. All along with this case I’ve had a sense that we’ll be blown away by evidence presented at the trial and like all of us here, I can’t wait for it to begin.

    Regarding the BC senior’s involvement, while I concur with your comments that the way they avoided telling police what they knew, and had total disregard for the huge angst Allison’s family was going through while she was missing is appalling, I don’t think that we can automatically assume they were involved, apart from protecting their very stupid and nasty son. I always try to put myself in others’ shoes. The BC seniors would’ve been well aware of GBC’s borrowing activities and financial ineptitude, and of the repercussions for the family and many others of his not ‘coming good’ with the loans etc. (Not to mention muddying their prestigious Clay family name – pardon the pun!)

    But if we were GBC’s parents (God forbid!) how would we handle it? Would we go into damage control, or fess up that our son was a person of low moral standing, greedy, wanting his wife’s insurance to sort out his financial woes and carry on with his life? None of this is right, I’m just trying to understand their predicament.

    And yes, Adam BC’s life (and all of their family’s) has been turned upside down and inside out by Gerard’s arrest and murder charges and will never be the same again. Imagine Adam, with his own accomplishments, having to be seen alongside his brother through no fault of his own. How this will pan out at the trial will be so interesting…

    Personally, I find it hard to believe that Toni McHugh was ever part of the family’s ‘plan’, if that’s what it was, for GBC to escape to South Africa. As you rightly mention, she had custody issues to deal with regarding her sons and her ex, not to mention the stresses of going to live in a foreign country etc. I just don’t see GBC including her in his plans (unless she could solve his financial woes, that is) but think he just strung her along like many before her and others at the same time as her.

    The fact that Toni is now a witness for the prosecution makes things even more interesting and complex. I do wonder what Gerard is thinking, while he wiles away the days and months in his protected cell at Arthur Gorrie. That his family will ‘fix things’ for him, that his ‘connections’ (whatever they are) will help him get off the murder rap, or that he will just lie and lead others along the garden path that is his life while the judicial process unfolds, and believe that everyone will buy his lies? He would be any defense barrister’s worst nightmare of a client.

    I sincerely hope for Allison’s parents, family and friends, that they have the strength to endure the trial, and hear things that no-one wants to hear about their loved one’s last hours on this earth, and that the outcome of it appears fair to them. When you have lost so much, I don’t really know what that would look like though.


  54. Hello everyone, I hope you’ve had a relaxing break over the Easter long weekend and have recharged your batteries spending time with family and friends, as have I. It’s only 7 weeks to go to Gerard Baden-Clay’s trial now. While it seems to have been a long time in coming, I’m sure the defendant has found that time is passing ever so slowly in Arthur Gorrie with his new acquaintances and four walls for company.

    I wonder at what point the jury will be chosen? I think I remember reading that the members will be chosen from Queensland. I also wonder if the defendant continues to live in his alternative reality that someone will get him out of this ‘mess’ and imagining the day he will walk out a free man.

    Will Toni be waiting for him? Time will tell. Or could there be other/s waiting in the wings? Is anyone considering attending part of the trial? I would certainly like to, but can probably only attend one day by taking time off work. I’m not sure at what point to attend though. Interested to hear anyone’s thoughts on this, I thought perhaps after the first week or so of evidence.

    There is possibly some direction given at the beginning of the trial as to who the witnesses will be, and what order they will be called. I think attending court during the prosecution stage would be most enlightening, and that some of the evidence heard will be mind-blowing. What that may be and what form that would take, I’m not sure, but I think the QPS and prosecution are holding evidence up their sleeves that we have never been privy to.


  55. Hi guys,

    I have been away for a few weeks, and am catching up with the interesting reading here.

    Spy hop, I also certainly never noticed those comments from ‘Kay’ before. Something about them feels fake to me though.The references to GBC being a migrant and the supposed planned ‘return’ to South Africa seem all wrong. Neither his parents or GBC come from South Africa or sound to me as if they have any connection to South Africa. A family member will know this, so the story does not ring true to me. They hail from England, and the place they lived for some time before migrating to Australia (I think GBC was very young so he will likely only know Australia as a country), was Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) – definitely not a place anyone will be wanting to go and live now. To me this story makes no sense. Maybe someone just made up stuff to ruffle others’ feathers… or perhaps its an attempt to muster sympathy for the BC’s.???

    I agree GBC’s actions have smeared the rest of the family, but IMO his parents and sister contributed much to this by acting the way they did after Allison’s ‘disappearance’ – they behaved strangely detached, almost jovial at times, and never seemed to concern themselves an iota about the Dickie’s distress, helping search for their supposedly ‘missing’ daughter in law, or owning up to the TRUTH – no, they assisted him from the get go in every way possible, to get away with this awful murder of the loving mother of 3 small girls. Instead they whisked GBC off to a lawyer on day 1 and even tried to rescue equipment such as a vacuum cleaner from the property early in the morning already when Allison was barely cold. Business as usual for them – Awful!! Complicit is my assessment at this stage.

    So I am not moved to feel sympathetic towards any of GBC’s immediate relatives here in QLD. What happened to ethics, honesty, honour, truth, Christian values? It seems they chose to act outside of acceptable moral codes right from the get go.

    I also think we will be blown away by what will come out during the trial, of course ones opinion may change as the trial unfolds, but from what’s known to date I will not be surprised at all if one or more of them were also involved in active assistance with the plan to murder Allison, the execution of it and/or the hiding of Allison’s body.

    We’ll find out in due course….


  56. Would it be a good thing if Gerbil realised he was going down and “spilled the beans” on the rest of the clan to get a reduced sentence? Or would the prosecution refuse a deal based on HIS refusal to co-operate in the past? Would anyone including the police believe a word Gerb said at this stage anyway?

    One good thing is that he has already had a nice long stay in the hole which must be quite an inconvenience to business as usual and may have tempered his sexual rompings (or may not)….

    I keep thinking about the ar??hole that murdered young Daniel Morecombe who was a similar age to my son when killed. He seemed such a reasonable chap in television footage – some similarities to Gerb in his seemingly harmless and amenable personality with the monster well hidden underneath… Very hard to pick a killer amongst your acquaintances…

    Was talking to a local from the Kenmore Chamber of Commerce recently who had sat beside Gerb on a number of occasions. He said they wished Gerb had just admitted he did it and explained what had happened instead of digging himself into a big hole which has affected all those around him. They all knew Gerb was under enormous financial pressure (as many are).

    What a rotten outcome though – Gerb deserves whatever is coming to him in a few months time.


    • ICanCU, I am so with you in regards to Daniel’s killer. The photo taken years ago looks like a nice young man. Even with a twinkle in his eye. How utterly different to those later evil photos. Indeed how does one spot a killer?
      Does GBC look like a killer? Might look like an idiot, but a killer?
      Does he too have another face?
      The point here being the innocent looking face doesn’t make a person any less of a killer.


  57. I agree with you RIP, regarding GBC’s family. I think the part they played in the events surrounding Allison’s ‘disappearance’ will be interesting to discover in time as the trial unfolds. Perhaps more than one of the clan have narcissistic tendencies. Will further charges be laid in due course? Time will tell I guess.

    I too felt the same when viewing footage of Daniel Morcombe’s killer, ICanCU. Talk about butter melting in his mouth… he seemed like a religious, gentle sort of guy. A wolf in sheep’s clothing. Does this also have something to do with narcissism – putting on one face to the world and society, whereas only those close to them really know the monster behind closed doors? This would no doubt be the case for GBC as well – Allison feared his condescending attitude to her regarding parenting, her own identity and value in the marriage, and their daughters clearly feared their father’s wrath (and no doubt still do.)

    As to GBC “spilling the beans”, I think pigs would fly before that happened. I think in his delusional state he believes all will be well, the jury will believe the testimony of his witnesses and the argument of his defense. I can’t believe for a moment they will allow him to take the stand, unlike Oscar Pistorius has done. Perhaps in the latter case his defense thought his crying and apparent remorse would cloud the judge’s view of the crime.

    No doubt GBC has wreaked havoc to those around him throughout his life, emotionally and financially. I think we’re about to get a clearer view of this as the events of June 2014 unfold…


  58. Hello to SFA, RIP, ICCU and others

    Interesting observations from all.

    I’m surprised that the walls have not whispered one whit from within Arthur Gorrie.

    Mind you, The Courier Mail appears to have lost the services of the two journos who were so doggedly pursuing the case in earlier times.

    Clearly there are reporting constraints, but that’s never stopped the slippage of snippets of information from behind bars.

    I sincerely believe that Gerbil, his family and legal team, will have been watching in great dismay as similar accused have been dropping like flies before our judicial system.

    I hope that other commentators are ‘on the money’ with their views that testimony still to come will blow the Baden Clays away….once and for all.

    In the meantime, does anyone know how the little girls are faring? They are, after all, Allison’s legacy.


    • Thank you RIP Allison – what an extraordinary article.

      The parallels with GBC are a carbon copy.

      Thank you for sharing this.

      If Oscar Preposterous is found guilty before The Trial of Gerbil, there will be trails of rodent droppings all over the floors at Arthur Gorrie..


      • Oh yes, blame shifting is the hallmark and I’m sure we’ll be hearing much of this during the trial. Allison was not a good wife, mother, had depression, didn’t validate GBC etc…

        Good pickup with this article RIP and such clear and chilling similarities with GBC. The lack of remorse, blaming others, being upset that they’d been found out (the words used by Allison in her diary), it being all about them with no consideration of the effect on others (family, the deceased themselves to name a few.)

        “…he calls Pistorius a vain man, driven by image, living a life “centred around performance”, someone who clearly has anger and impulse control issues.” Sounds like one GBC in Arthur Gorrie, whose wife and children clearly feared him for good reason.


  59. Thanks RIP Very interesting article.

    His social worker *** bolsters the theory that he has narcissistic personality disorder.

    His behaviour, speaks volumes of his utter self-absorption, lack of empathy, and inability to accept responsibility or blame for his actions. These are hallmarks of narcissistic personality disorder.

    Says “I’m fascinated by the dark side of human behaviour that makes people commit horrific acts, then act as if special dispensation absolves them from responsibility.”

    Bulldog state prosecutor Gerrie Nel didn’t bother to keep the sarcasm from his voice when he repeated the words, “sorry for the loss”, and asked Van Schalkwyk: “Did he ever say he was sorry for shooting Reeva?”, to which she replied: “No.”

    So again, it was “all about him”, Nel said.

    Interesting again, particularly in relation to Allison and her husband including his family. And the remarks they have made in public.


    • Hi RIP. I just noticed that Moonlight has put a calender on this page top right side. It has a header: The Big Day Is Coming June 10th, 2014
      28 days to go.
      I think it got moved to the 10th on account of the Queens Birthday weekend Monday 9 June.
      Not far to go. It feels like a long wait for justice. A lot of “Stuff” has been uncovered in the interim though.
      BTW If this matter were up to me, I would have this all done and dusted a long time ago.
      In the which case (and without all the details that have been uncovered in the interim), I expect GBC would be out on the street again expecting apologies to boot. And money.
      Expectations of big dollars to compensate too. Key word here, MONEY.


      • Who will be attending court?

        It would be wonderful for those who are free, for us to make some plans to meet and have lunch. We drove into town last time and parked, never again, parking prices are more astronomical than one would dream of, lol.

        The court last time was also very small, we arrived quite early.


        • I’d be interested in that Moonlight…. I’ve been wondering how to say something about attending without compromising personal safety. Not sure how wise it would be to advertise ‘we’ll all be there on (this) day’. Olivia might flour us lol.


          • I’m looking for a Friday…not sure if the court will even be hearing the case on that day of the week. Could any possible attendees keep me posted, please?


      • If it was up to little me, QCL, I would have lynched the f$@*#er long ago and been done with it….but RIP’s and Justice Byrne’s points are also well-made.


  60. Hi QCL, yes I agree it feels as if 2 years awaiting trial is a very long time. It seems too long, people’s memories of events fade. I too would think a much quicker follow-up would be better. But on the other hand, I realise there may be hidden positives, eg the girls now being older and more able to cope with testifying. They will know a lot of what went on in that household, in general and also on that fateful night and the next morning, when behaviours were all but normal. They were also living in skull manor for some weeks, where no doubt issues would have been discussed…..I suspect they may well be very valuable witnesses….who needed time to settle and mature more to handle what may be required to deal with.


  61. I saw on the news tonight Oscar P’s trial is once again postponed while he gets a psychiatric evaluation done…hmmm….


  62. Today I thought I heard the name Gerard Baden Clay mentioned on radio news at work around lunchtime. The radio was a little far so I could not make out what was said, but thought I’d find out online. However I see no new news articles posted online. Perhaps I was mistaken about what I heard…??? Did anyone else hear something about GBC being mentioned on the news today?


    • Dear RIP,

      I am looking, I found this one from March, though:

      JURORS in the murder trial of accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay could be polled by lawyers to see if they are biased .

      The Supreme Court in Brisbane was yesterday told the quizzing of likely jurors was one of a range of pre-trial issues that needed to be clarified before Baden-Clay’s trial started in June.

      Baden-Clay affair: ‘I blame Allison’

      Justice John Byrne, who will preside at the trial, read from a list of items raised by prosecutors Todd Fuller QC and Danny Boyle and Baden-Clay’s legal team Michael Byrne QC and criminal law solicitor Peter Shields.

      He said one issue requiring a future hearing was the topic of proposed questions to be put to potential jurors.

      The court was not told the wording of the proposed questions, but Justice Byrne said their form was similar to those used during a previous manslaughter trial, that of former Bundaberg surgeon Jayant Patel.

      The court was told lawyers for Baden-Clay intended to oppose any media applications to access exhibits for publication.

      Baden-Clay, 43, is scheduled to go to trial on June 10 for the murder of his wife Allison, who was found dead 10 days after he reported her missing from their Brookfield home.

      (Thanks to


      • Thanks Moonlight! It may well have been a mention about the juror selection. I was just really busy at the time so just caught the name but not the detail. Next time I’ll drop what I am doing and go and listen!


  63. ALLISON Baden-Clay told a counsellor her husband blamed her chronic depression for his three-year affair with an employee.

    In a pre-trial hearing in the Supreme Court yesterday, details of the couple’s marital problems were revealed by Relationships Australia counsellor Carmel Ritchie.

    Accused murderer Gerard Baden-Clay’s attitude to his wife’s panic attacks and psychotic episodes was “get over it”, Allison told the counsellor.

    Four days before reporting his wife missing, Baden-Clay told the same counsellor he used to blame his wife for the disappointments in his life.

    Telling the counsellor he wanted to “build a future” with Allison, he reluctantly agreed to let his wife vent about his affair in bursts of up to 15 minutes.

    Baden-Clay’s role was to “simply listen” and “absolutely not be defensive” and at the end to express remorse if that was how he felt.


    • Hmmm…it seems rather than just listening and expressing remorse he took delight in rubbing as much salt in Allison’s emotional woulds as he possibly could, until the situation reached breaking point….


  64. The Honourable Justice John H Byrne AO RFD will be presiding over GBC’s murder trial:

    Senior Judge Administrator, Supreme Court of Queensland

    Date of Birth

    16 October 1948

    •Brisbane Boys’ College, Toowong (1956-1965)

    University Education
    •Master of Laws, University of Michigan (1973)
    •Bachelor of Laws, University of Queensland (1971)
    •Bachelor of Arts, University of Queensland (1969)

    •Officer of the Order of Australia (2013)
    •Reserve Force Decoration (1985)

    Judicial Career
    •Senior Judge Administrator, Supreme Court of Queensland (2007-)
    •Judge, Supreme Court of Queensland (1989-)

    Pre-judicial Career
    •Member, Supreme Court Library Committee (1985-1989)
    •Member, Supreme Court Rules Committee (1983-1989)
    •Member, University of Queensland Law Faculty Board (1982-1988)
    •Member, Board of Governors of the Australian Council of Social Service (1976-1977)
    •Honorary Secretary, Queensland Council of Social Service (1975-1983)
    •Articled Clerk, Morris Fletcher and Cross (1970-1972)
    •Chairman, Bar Association Alternative Dispute Resolution Committee (1989)
    •Appointed Queen’s Counsel (1982)
    •Admitted as a Barrister (1972)

    Extra Judicial Positions
    •Deputy President, Defence Force Discipline Appeal Tribunal (2013-)
    •Fellow, Australian Academy of Law (2012-)
    •Chair, Council of the National Judicial College of Australia (2012-)
    •Convenor, Better Resolution of Litigation Group (2009-)
    •President, Australian Institute of Judicial Administration (2004-2006)
    •Member, Consultative Committee of the National Judicial College of Australia (2002-2004)
    •Member, National Judicial College Working Group (2000-2002)
    •Member, Law Admissions Consultative Committee (1998-2012)
    •Member, Organizing Committee of the National Judicial Orientation Program (1998-2010)
    •Member, Steering Committee of the Supreme and Federal Courts Judges’ Conference (1998-2003)
    •Member, Council of the Australian Institute of Judicial Administration (1997-2006)
    •Visiting Foreign Judicial Fellow, Federal Judicial Center (1996)
    •Member, Bond University Law School Advisory Board (1994-1999)
    •Member, Griffith University Law Faculty Visitors Committee (1994-1999)
    •Member, Litigation Reform Commission (1994-1996)
    •Chairman, Advisory Committee to establish Griffith University Law School (1990-1991)
    •Member, Supreme Court Rules Committee (1989-1991)

    Biographical Notes

    John Harris Byrne was born on 16 October 1948 in Brisbane, Queensland, to Joseph Henry Byrne, and his wife Neva Sears (née Harris). He was educated at Brisbane Boys’ College (1956–65), and the University of Queensland, graduating Bachelor of Arts (1969) and Bachelor of Laws (1971).

    On 15 February 1972, Byrne was admitted as a barrister of the Supreme Court of Queensland. He undertook postgraduate studies at the University of Michigan, graduating Master of Laws (1973). In 1974, he commenced a period of 15 years of practice at the bar in Brisbane, taking silk on 25 November 1982. Byrne served in the Infantry Corps in the Army Reserve (1966-85). He was second-in-command of the Queensland University Regiment during 1982 and commanded the Officer Cadet Training Unit at Wacol, holding the rank of lieutenant colonel (1982-85). He received the Reserve Force Decoration (1985). Byrne was honorary secretary of the Queensland Council of Social Service (1975–83), and a member of the board of governors of the Australian Council of Social Service (1976–77). He was also a member of the board of the Law Faculty at the University of Queensland (1982–88) and a member of the Supreme Court library committee (1985–89).

    Byrne was appointed a judge of the Supreme Court of Queensland on 25 July 1989. He served as a member of the Litigation Reform Commission (1994–96), a member of the council of the Australian Institute of Judicial Administration (1997–2006), a member of the steering committee of the Supreme and Federal Courts Judges Conference (1998–2003), a member of the organising committee of the National Judicial Orientation Program (1998–2010), a member of the National Judicial College working group (2000–02), a member of the consultative committee of the National Judicial College of Australia (2002–04) and president of the Australian Institute of Judicial Administration (2004–06). Byrne also chaired the advisory committee to establish the Law School at Griffith University (1990–91). He was also a member of the Griffith University Law Faculty visiting committee (1994–99) and of the Bond University Law School advisory board (1994–99). He was appointed senior judge administrator of the court on 24 August 2007.

    Judicial Papers

    View Papers by The Honourable Justice John H Byrne AO RFD


    • So he knows what he’s doing then……this man is unlikely to be ‘taken in’ by the slimy little poseur that is GBC & Co


            • Hello All …. sorry I’ve not been on here very much , had a few health issues but hopefully on the improve … at this stage we wont be at the trial , we keep selling our home and buyers cant get finance and until we sell here we stay here.


              • Dear Mike,

                Sorry to hear of your travails, and hope you are on the mend.

                So glad to have you back!

                Has anyone mentioned to you that Queensland is a great place for recuperation? In fact, I think it’s going to be around 28C for the next few days.


        • Hmmmmm. An Army Man. As opposed to pretending, poofy over-grown little boys still playing soldiers at Scouts….
          That’d be a Real Man, then…..

          Sorry, I have Attitude today. Been thinking about the girls being without their Mum for Mothers Day, probably dwelling on it a bit much has made me A N G R Y again.


          • I understand, Tishy, seeing the photo up on the page with Allison’s favourite coloured flower, and a car driving away over the bridge in the distance is heartbreaking.

            It is good to be angry, you care.


    • Well, well.
      It appears we have an esteemed Justice.
      Not just a man of the law, but highly ranked in the Army Reserve (community service), instrumental in evolving legal schools (education), and on the Board of Governors for Social Services (welfare).
      Methinks I hear the sound of quaking boots out Wacol way.


  65. I may be able to ‘wangle’ -er I mean, work Issues may coincidentally have me in Brisvegas at just the right time…..will shout out if so.


  66. I’d like to attend court, but probably can only do one day taking time off work. When do others think would be a good time to go? When the defense or prosecution are presenting their cases? I’m almost certain that GBC will not take the stand.


    • I’m with you SFA. From the previous offerings from both you and Moonlight as court witnesses, I’d bet London to a brick that “his people” will be desperate to keep him as hidden as possible. Visually, and certainly verbally. Lest his slimy, self-serving, egotistical, pampered, holier than thou attitude, with false doe eyes but simpering soft-spoken humility, seal his fate even further. Oh dear, I think I’ve caught something off Tishy!


  67. SFA I’m afraid if I was there while the defence was presenting their case, I might not be able to contain myself, probably like many others. I think it would be potentially disastrous for the defence were they to allow GBC to go up. I hope his ego overcomes their reason.


    • So I’m thinking it may be good to attend court possibly on day 3 or 4 of the prosecution presenting its case. I wonder if it’s published who is giving evidence when – perhaps the media will get hold of the information? The daily law lists only give the cases being heard that day I think. 24 days till the trial starts, bring it on!


  68. Another thing. I tried to mention the following in the ‘nice chat’ place (because it didn’t relate to the BC case), but couldn’t work it out.

    So I just offer the following observation from today’s events and likely police radio:

    “We have Roger Rogerson. Over.

    “Roger that. Over.

    “No not Roger That, Roger Rogerson. Over.

    “THE Roger Rogerson?. Over.

    “Roger that. Over

    “Oh for crying out loud……………………..”.


    • Roger the Dodger , McNamara (The Leader of the Band) and Kenny the cop turned Defence Counsel … what an interesting trio … Macca went quietly , but not The Artful One , it was right up his alley , ‘lights … camera’s … action’ …. and as Kenny told all who’d listen ” after 42 yrs in the court system .. this is a disgrace” he went on to say ” we were doing the honourable thing , my client was saying’ tatt ta’ to his missus and these disgraceful Detectives dared to come and arrest him” .. I mean , how low can a cop go , fancy arresting a bloke for murdering someone “did I mention 42 years in the court system” … ” now stop recording while I get myself under control , right , ok .. here we go ” … as I was saying “this is a disgrace , after 42 years …….

      ” Oiiiiii Gerbs …. no comment …. ” Over” or as Kenny said to The Artful Chap .. “It’s all over Red Rover ” … I rest my case.

      It’s a sad day when a couple of bent former coppers cant even knock a bloke then generously take him fishing and steal his dope without raising suspicion …


      • Oh Mike, I just sprayed coffee everywhere. You crack me up 😀
        You also remind me an awful lot of Miss Marple…. do the 2 of you know each other by chance?


  69. Until approximately April 2012, I was not a crime follower. (I am not a Criminal, Crime never affected me, so why follow?)
    Let’s just say I am reformed. I see the Light.
    Interesting watching the Roger the Dodger business unfold.
    Thanks to my apprenticeship with GBC and SG, my first thoughts were “Does this fellow have any sort of history?”
    Gee whiz! Bit of researching and; …Results were amazing. Looks like anyone who has either stood in his way or tried to expose his modus operandi, has …. either vanished off the face of the earth or been murdered.
    If he has killed anybody, it has been in self defence. Always.
    And that somebody has been some sort of scumbag. Therefore no questions asked. Bravery awards and so forth followed.


  70. I doubt The Dodger will roam the streets ever again … he will play the “poor me ,73 and unwell ” however his victims are never going to age …

    I firmly believe he had Chris Flannery take the unsuccessful pot shot at Michael Drury , then Flannery disappeared .

    Wayne Lanfranchi was shot in self defence (coughs) ..

    Sally Ann Huckstep had a big mouth and paid the ultimate price … Did Neddy Smith ,( the Dodgers great mate ) have a say in her ‘drowning’ ..

    Oddly after that Neddy got sprung and he too wont ever see the light of day again , I hear his brain is now scrambled due to illness.

    Macca n Dodger are where they belong and where others ( both clean and corrupt cops) want them.

    NSW has a long haul to clean up their Police Force and even harder task to clean up their politicians , it’s been a mess since the days of Askin as Premier.

    They are fast catching Vic in the State of Origin (and u thought it was QLD v NSW as the combatants) and may become No 1 yet in the ‘ Corruption Stakes’ … Dodger off the field and in the sin bin may just give Vic the edge again this year.

    Any SP Bookies amongst us ???? lol

    Yes QCL , crime in Oz is interesting , we worship the Kelly bloke and his fight at Glenrowan (and with some reason) and our unofficial Anthem is about a bloke flogging a sheep and necking himself…

    ‘ Once a Jolly Swagman went out on Botany Bay’

    To top that off we have an Aussie crime site run by a self confessed thief ….

    Did I tell you about Roger the Dodger arrest ? .. twas ‘ a disgrace , worst thing in 42 yrs ‘
    You have no ethics , fancy arresting an alleged murderer … ” a disgrace !! ”

    At least I get a giggle out of some of this … maybe Joe Hockey could do a Highland Fling while we sing … c’mon you lot , in time and in tune ………’ Once a Jolly Policeman appeared on stage with Chopper ‘…………….


  71. Before any response I must add I already know my sense of humour is weird but let me tell you me and all the ‘voices’ think it’s just fine n dandy … LOL

    Tis ok , the men in white coats will be along shortly and take me back to the Home !


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