Gerard Baden-Clay Murder Trial – Day 9 – 24TH June, 2014 (New Posters Welcome)

Day 9



Dr Flegg, “The scream was a single, reverse crescendo volume, tapering off.  What I would describe as having an involuntary quality”.

 The screams occurred at 10:53pm.  I checked the time on my mobile phone. 

Dr John, “I didn’t find any diatoms in Allison’s liver or bone marrow. If Allison had drowned, I would have expected to find diatoms in her body.”


Dr Bruce Flegg, a parliamentary backbencher and medical doctor, has been called to the stand.

Dr Flegg and GBC have been friends for a number of years.

Dr Flegg, of Brookfield, testifies that he was in bed, talking on the phone to Sue Heath on 19th April, 2012 when he heard a female scream.

Dr Flegg, “The scream was a single, reverse crescendo volume, tapering off.  What I would describe as having an involuntary quality. I live in an elevated part of Brookfield, which is a very quiet area, the sound came from the general direction of the show grounds of Brookfield.  My bedroom faces towards the showgrounds.  It was distressing and I’m not one to be distressed by things I hear.  I asked Sue, “what was that?”  I then walked outside and looked around.  I then came back inside and heard a second scream, the tone and nature were exactly the same.  The screams occurred at 10:53pm.  I checked the time on my mobile phone. 

I don’t have any doubt about what I heard, I cannot be sure how far away it was.”

Dr Flegg is showing the court a map of where his house is in relation to the Brookfield Showgrounds (editor note:  Dr Flegg’s house is closer, in bound, elevated up on a slight escarpment, although he is not overlooking the showgrounds, as the crow flies,  he isn’t far from GBC house at all).

Dr Flegg, “I didn’t hear any unusual noises between 9pm and 10pm” (Editor:  Ann Rhodes lives closer to Dr Flegg, her house isn’t elevated but down near the creek, where you cross a bitumen bridge).

Dr Flegg, “I spoke to Gerard on a number of occasions through the local chamber of commerce”.  I called him in December, 2011, and asked to catch up.  I went to see Gerard at his new office in Taringa as Gerard had a situation in his business.  Gerard’s business partners had left and Gerard needed to raise $400,000.00.  I asked Gerard who his partners were and he declined to answer.  I asked Gerard if he was looking for an equity partner, he was adamant he didn’t want that.  He was looking to borrow money as he wanted to keep his equity at whatever level it was at the time.

In February 2012, I saw Gerard at a chamber of commerce meeting.  Gerard seemed to be a bit annoyed with me, and accused me of telling people that his business was in trouble.  I assured him that I hadn’t said anything.  On 6th March, 2012, I received a message from Gerard asking me to call.  I was in the election period, so I was very busy, so I asked Sue Heath to return Gerard’s call.  Sue Heath advised me that Gerard had asked again to borrow money, I called him back on 11th March, 2012.  It was a short call in response to the loan request.  I saw Gerard socially on occasion, although I don’t believe that I met Allison, nor Toni McHugh.  I have visited the real estate office once or twice”.

Defence asked about the scream.

Dr Flegg, “The scream was quite a disturbing event”.

Defence asks why Dr Flegg checked the front yard if he thought it came from far away.

Dr Flegg, “I thought it was a couple of house blocks”.  (Editor note:  Some house blocks in the early Brookfield area’s older estates are two and a half acres).

Dr Flegg, “My house would be at least a kilometer from the Baden-Clay home.  I would be extremely surprised if the screams had come from so far away.”  (Editor:  Acoustics in the Brookfield area are surprisingly clear and far reaching due to the area being hilly, in my view, this gives perfect acoustics).

Dr Flegg, “Gerard’s loan request was probably out of the ordinary but not dramatically left field.  I was surprised, but not a lot.  At the time, I was attempting to fund a purchase of a property in New York.”

Defence:  “Gerard didn’t seek to pursue the loan request when you called him back, he’d moved on”.

Dr Flegg, “Yes”.


Robert Cheesman has taken the stand, he owns a consulting business and is friends with GBC.

Mr Cheesman, “I met Gerard in 1983 in high school, we’ve been close friends ever since.  Gerard was my best man at my wedding.  Gerard told me in February, 2011, that he had suffered some setbacks after the floods and his partners left.” (Editor’s note, hmmmmm we recall the partner’s testimony, which is not as per this statement).

“I lent Gerard $90,000 in March, April and May, 2011, two of our friends also lent Gerard money.  The business was clearly in trouble but I saw a way out.

The expenses were too high, they were paying too much rent and also had staffing issues.   There wasn’t a written agreement, it was agreed that Gerard would pay 10% interest.  I received three or four months on interest payments from Gerard, although I didn’t receive any of the $90,000.00 back.  I was fairly heavily involved in the business, reviewing all the payments in and out until September/October, 2011.   Gerard and I would talk several times a week.  In October, 2011, I advised Gerard to buy out the rent roll.  Gerard received his finance from his former partners who had sold him the rent roll.”

“I have met Toni McHugh but I didn’t know her, nor did I know of the affair.  I have an accounting background and was rigorously going through Gerard’s business records.”

Defence asked about expenses.

Mr Cheeseman, “For the first six months I approved every expense, Gerard was definitely optimistic about the business.  We wouldn’t have lent Gerard the money if we didn’t think he would pay it back.  I didn’t make a demand for the money.  I do believe that Gerard’s credit card debt was his only personal debt.

In June, after Gerard’s arrest, the rent roll reverted back to the former partners.  I believe that Gerard was always optimistic and I also believe that Allison had admiral ambitions, I would describe her as optimistic.”

Defence:  “Were you aware that Allison wanted a son?”.

Cheesman, “I was aware of that.  I knew Allison was suffering from depression and that Gerard found it hard.  My company and Gerard’s company were both once listed in BRW’s fastest growing companies”.  (Editor’s note:  There seems to be a trend that Gerard’s friends run down Allison and support this suicide theory with their comments.  Why are Allison’s friends, bar one, not on the stand?)

Cheesman, “I remember Nigel asking if I could find Gerard a lawyer after Allison disappeared.  I blew Nigel off and told him it wasn’t necessary and that they should focus on finding Allison”.


Stuart Christ has been called to the stand, Stuart and Gerard attended school and university together.  Their children attended school together.

Mr Christ said that in recent years they probably weren’t as close, before that, they were close.

Mr Christ, “My wife and I gave Gerard and Allison a loan for their business.  In February, 2012, I received a call from Gerard saying that the business wasn’t doing well.  It was a fairly vague call.”

“I then saw Gerard with Cheesman and another friend, we were told that the business’ cash flow was in trouble following the floods.  Gerard told us that he had hired a lot of new staff, that they were in a much larger office and were paying more rent.  The business would have been in severe trouble in 2011 if not for a cash injection.  The three of  us loaned Gerard money and pushed the business to reduce expenditure.  I gave Gerard $90,000.00 over three payments in March and April, 2011.  The idea was that we would be paid 10% interest each month until we received the $90,000.00 back plus a cap of $90,000.o0 in interest.  I received three interest payments from Gerard.  I have not received an interest payment since around July, 2011 and I did not receive the $90,000.00 back.  The sales arm of the business had a negative cash flow when Gerard asked for a loan.  It wasn’t worth anything.  Gerard took over the rent roll in 2011, after receiving finance from his former partners.  I did not speak to Allison about the loans although the cash was paid into Gerard and Allison’s joint business account.”

“I may have met Toni McHugh, although I don’t recall her.  I wasn’t aware of the affair”.

Allison became more involved in the business in late 2011 which actually gave us a lot of comfort.  My impression was that Allison was involved in the management of the rental business and the business in general.  During one discussion we asked Gerard to confirm something with Allison, we actually pushed the point that Allison was to be involved.  I did not speak directly to Allison at the time of the loan.  After the loan, we required very regular updates on the business, the sales and expenditures.   In late 2011, we became more comfortable that the business would survive, although at various times Gerard would ask for more money, which we didn’t give him”.

(Editor’s note:  NBC’s phone and internet bills were paid out of the business they were quite hefty).

“I would have had to borrow more money to invest more money in Gerard’s business and I did not want to do that”.

Mr Christ, “Our families would occasionally go camping together. Allison would be removed, or quiet and reclusive at times.  If I dropped the children off, Allison would be at the door smiling and happy, other times she would not come out.  It wasn’t a big deal, that was Allison.”

“I didn’t make a demand for repayment on the $90,000.00 loan I gave Gerard, we weren’t terribly worried, as we were getting interest”.

“The business had significant fixed costs that would take time to reduce.  Gerard needed to downsize vehicles from a Lexus to a Captiva, cut staff and sublet part of the office space.  By the end of 2011, I was not as worried and more comfortable, as we would see that the money came back at some stage.  It gave me great comfort to see Allison and Gerard working together in the business.

I received a phone call on 20th April, 2012, and was quite distraught and concerned about the line of questioning from the police.  Nigel said that they were going after Gerard.  I told Nigel that they should focus on finding Allison.  I gave Nigel the number of a lawyer who I went to school with.

Allison was fine before Easter 2012.

Peter Cranna, an accountant and friend of GBC’s has taken the stand

Cranna, “Gerard and I have been friends for more than 20 years, we met while working together in an accounting firm. We attended each other’s weddings, we went camping each year, we had dinners and coffee.

I had lent money to Gerard in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 of which he paid back.  The amounts included $50,000, $24,000, and $19,000.  Gerard paid back $6000 in February, 2011.  We have a friendship and he talked to me about his business.  I was willing to lend him some money for his business to succeed.  Gerard supplied the reports when I asked for them.  Two of Gerard’s friends, Mr Christ and Mr Cheesman and myself formed an advisory group for the business in 2011.  We thought that we could assist by looking at the cost structures of the business.  The general conditions of the real estate business at that time were difficult, as the floods had had a negative effect.

We drafted an agreement before lending Gerard money, although it wasn’t ever signed.  It was a loan, there wasn’t a term on the loan, and I don’t remember the interest rate.  Of the $50,000, $24,000 and $19,000 loans, as of April, 2012, Gerard owed approximately $96,000.00.

I did not know Toni McHugh and I was not aware of the affair until after Allison went missing.  I was aware that Allison was involved in the business from time to time and that she became more involved in the business in 2011.”

Defence:  “You have been a chartered accountant since 1991 and you have many qualifications.  Two loans, before 2008, were repaid with interest?”

Mr Cranna, “I did not make demands for the remainder.  The business was involved in reducing the business costs and increasing sales, the business was going through a growth phase.  In the market conditions of that time, there were too many staff.  After the three of us came on board in 2011, sales picked up to a better level and I was happy with the direction and the trend that the business was travelling.”

Defence:  “Have you known Gerard to grow a beard in the past?”

Mr Cranna:  “He had more impressive facial hair that I did.”

(Editor – this was a pertinent question, no cross examination?).


Professor James Wallman, a forensic entomologist since 1990, is giving evidence by phone. 

Professor Wallman was given samples of insects, by the police, on the afternoon of 30th April, 2012, they asked him to identify and provide a minimum time since Allison’s death.  Professor Wallman was also asked whether he could tell if Allison’s body was submerged in the creek where she was found.

Professor Wallman, “I initially had to identify the type of insects and use temperature information.  I then had to determine how long it would have taken the insects to develop to that extent.  I can then estimate the person has been dead for at least that amount of time.  Allison could have been dead for at least three to four days in good temperatures, more time in a cooler temperature.  It is possible for the flies to have gone through a full cycle and left the body which would be consistent with Allison being dead for 11 days.  I couldn’t reach a conclusion on whether her body had been submerged.

I didn’t receive additional weather data to analyse.

It would be normal for flies to lay eggs at intervals.


Dr Jacob John from Perth.  Dr John is a retired professor, his expertise is diatoms (algae), a microscopic organism found in water.  Dr John will now give evidence via phone.

Dr John, “Diatoms do not decompose if they enter the human body, they stay there.  I was provided with water samples from Kholo Creek, and a piece of Allison’s liver tissue as well as some bone, marrow intact.

There is a population explosion of diatoms in Kholo Creek.  In the typical drowning scenario, diatoms will enter the human body.  Diatoms in a body is evidence of drowning.  I didn’t find any diatoms in Allison’s liver or bone marrow.  If Allison had drowned, I would have expected to find diatoms in her body.

My conclusion is that Allison did  not drown in Kholo Creek or anywhere.  There isn’t any evidence of drowning at all.”

DEFENCE:  “You do not have any experience in pathology.”

DR JOHN:  “No, I have studied human biology”.

DEFENCE:  “Tissues from the lungs and stomach are best for diatom testing.”


Professor Olaf drummer, a toxicologist with more than 25 years experience has been called to the stand.

Professor Drummer was given a toxicology report on Allison.

“Allison had sertraline and alcohol in her blood.  The sertraline is an anti-depressant, more commonly known as Zoloft.  The usual starting dose is 50mg but can range up to 200mg.   A tolerance to the side effects of sertraline can be developed.  Patients can start with a low dose and doctors might increase the dose to achieve more of an effect.  Sertraline is relatively non-toxic.  .1mg up to .3mg per litre of blood would be  normal in someone taking sertraline.  The concentrations will change throughout the course of the day, with the levels of sertraline in the blood increasing after death as it will move from tissues to blood.  Allison had a blood alcohol level of .095, this could have been from post mortem changes in the body.  It is quite common to find alcohol concentrations in a body that has been exposed to the elements.  The concentration of sertraline in Allison’s blood was on the higher side, clinically.  The levels could have been affected by the decomposition of the body.  The sample that I had was from the liver.  Liver readings would have been higher.  I would not ever rule out death from sertraline alone but I say it would be very unusual.  I would expect much higher levels of sertraline in Allison’s blood if she had overdosed.”

Defence:  “If on 100mg per day, the average person would have .03mg and highest .05mg in their blood.  Professor Drummer says .1.  Will the side effects of Sertraline be agitation, anxiety, paranoia, abnormal thinking?”

Professor Drummer, “Sometimes”.

Defence:  “Can Sertraline cause serotonin syndrome?”

Professor Drummer, “Yes it can”.

Defence:  “.59mg sertraline was in Allison’s blood.  It is substantially higher than would be expected?”.

Professor Drummer, “No.  The blood was collected next to the liver from a decomposing body, the levels would have been elevated”.

Defence, “The level was still higher than expected.”

Professor Drummer, “Not in my view, no.  You cannot be too precise about what the concentrations represent.  In my view the Sertraline is unlikely to be the cause of Allison’s death.  I cannot exclude it though.  Side effects of Sertraline would have been present early on and then would have dissipated.


Martin Giles, a hydraulic engineer has been called to the stand.

Mr Giles assessed the flood levels at Kholo Creek for the police.

Mr Giles, “I obtained rain data for the area.  On 22nd May, 2012, I visited Kholo Creek where Allison’s body was found.  There was a depression on the ground where her body had been.  When I returned on 21st August, 2012, the depression was still there.  There wasn’t much difference in size.  The mouth of the creek is 120m from the bridge.  Kholo Creek is tidal.  There was a 2m difference in tides.  There was rain in the creek catchment on 27th and 28th April, 2012 between 80mm and 100mm. Allison’s body was 1.4m and 1.5m above mean sea level.  I do not believe that the tide levels would have been enough to move a body.  Allison’s body was at 1.4m – 1.5m above mean sea level, highest tide would have reached 1.5m above mean sea level.”

Defence:  “Your opinion is based on the charts, not the observations of the tide actually moving.  There isn’t a rain gauge available at Kholo Creek.  The information had to be taken from nearby.”

The defence points to a photo, pointing out the discolouration in the bank above Allison’s body.

Defence, “Is this the high tide line?”

Mr Giles, “It could be, but it could be other things.”


Dr Gordon Guymer, director and botanist of the Queensland Herbarium has taken the stand.

Dr Guymer, “I received specimens of plants taken from Allison’s body on 28th June. I looked at them under a microscope before comparing them to the known specimens.  I identified seven leaves of crepe myrtle entwined in Allison’s hair.  Three leaflets of Cat’s Claw Creeper were identified.  Chinese Elm was also found with the body.  I found four of those species entwined in Allison’s hair.  The crepe myrtle leaves were fallen leaves.   The Cat’s Claw creeper leaf was pulled from a plant, it was attached at the time.  The Cat’s Claw creeper grows up in trees along the ground.  The seven fishbone fern leaves seemed to be fresh and fallen.  The parts of eucalypt leaves and bark were no doubt fallen.  The Chinese Elm leaf looks to be a fallen leaf.

I also looked at the grass and leaf fragments from the Baden-Clay car, including the footwells.”

Dr Guymer attended Kholo Creek on 13th July to conduct a botanical survey of the area.

Dr Guymer, “I found Chinese Elm and Eucalypts in the distance.  Those were only two of the six species of plant found at Kholo Creek.”

Dr Guymer, “There is a crepe myrtle at the house, visible from the street, I took some samples of the crepe myrtle.  I also found a fallen branch of lillypilly at the house.”

Photographs:  Different plant species growing around the Baden-Clay house.

Photograph:  Photo of the garden, Dr Guymer points out crepe myrtles and cat’s claw creeper.

Dr Guymer, “There are crepe myrtles and cat’s claw creeper growing alongside the carport area.

Photograph:  Another view of the carport area showing cat’s claw creeper growing along the ground, as well as the crepe myrtle.

Photograph:  Carport area shows fishbone fern and crepe myrtle close by.

Photograph:  Fishbone fern and crepe myrtle leaf litter along the rear patio area.

Dr Guymer also found fishbone fern on the ground on the back patio.

Four of the plants found on Allison were growing at the rear patio area.  Others along the carport and towards the front of the house.

Dr Guymer,  “I returned to Kholo Creek bridge on 19th July to complete another survey.  Chinese Elm and Eucalypt only found.  I went to the nearby scout camp and travelled along the area and I did not find other plants.”


Dr Guymer, “I returned to Kholo Creek on later occasions to confirm those species were not there.  They definitely were not there.”

Dr Guymer will continue tomorrow.







































Allison Baden-Clay disappearance in pictures:



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57 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay Murder Trial – Day 9 – 24TH June, 2014 (New Posters Welcome)

  1. This is good news, wonderful news:

    Yeah Dr Flegg:

    Dr Flegg, “The scream was a single, reverse crescendo volume, tapering off. What I would describe as having an involuntary quality”.

    The screams occurred at 10:53pm. I checked the time on my mobile phone.


  2. Up to date comments as they happen:

    Cheesman, “I remember Nigel asking if I could find Gerard a lawyer after Allison disappeared. I blew Nigel off and told him it wasn’t necessary and that they should focus on finding Allison”.


  3. Defence: “Have you known Gerard to grow a beard in the past?”

    Mr Cranna: “He had more impressive facial hair that I did.”

    The above isn’t an answer to a direct question, it is skirting around the question.

    Why isn’t anyone ever cross examined?


  4. ******* BREAKING NEWS *********


    Dr Jacob John from Perth. Dr John is a retired professor, his expertise is diatoms (algae), a microscopic organism found in water. Dr John will now give evidence via phone.

    “There is a population explosion of diatoms in Kholo Creek. In the typical drowning scenario, diatoms will enter the human body. Diatoms in a body is evidence of drowning. I didn’t find any diatoms in Allison’s liver or bone marrow. If Allison had drowned, I would have expected to find diatoms in her body.”


  5. I too am wondering why there is no questions from the prosecution , i have many as i bet each of us has … something odd here , very odd indeed.


      • Please Mr Prosecutor … ask Toni Mc Hugh …. ” When you met GBC at the flats while Allison was listed as a missing person did you have sex ?? ”
        The answer if in the affirmative would obviously show he cares only about himself and had no concerns for where Allison was.

        The bloke asked today who skirted the answer about the beard was surely coached to answer ‘Yes” but was not prepared to perjer himself , you can be guaranteed breathed a sigh of relief when the prosecution did not re ask the question .


  6. Please excuse my grammatical errors , i also posted a long message earlier , i gather it’s in purgatory , waiting patiently.


  7. Another theory gone for defence:

    Professor Drummer, “The sample that I had was from the liver. Liver readings would have been higher. I would not ever rule out death from sertraline alone but I say it would be very unusual. I would expect much higher levels of sertraline in Allison’s blood if she had overdosed.”


  8. I’m off to polish the fuel cap on the Kingswood …

    and hopefully the Prosecutor will sink GBC with a few questions and he can polish bars on his cell for a few decades ….

    Their stratergy is hard to follow , well the truth is i cant understand , someone please tell me why the are going down this path ??


  9. Defence, “The level was still higher than expected.”

    Professor Drummer, “Not in my view, no. You cannot be too precise about what the concentrations represent. In my view the Sertraline is unlikely to be the cause of Allison’s death. I cannot exclude it though.”


  10. Mr Giles, a hydrologist:

    “There was rain in the creek catchment on 27th and 28th April, 2012 between 80mm and 100mm. Allison’s body was 1.4m and 1.5m above mean sea level. I do not believe that the tide levels would have been enough to move a body.”


  11. What I’m loving (sorry, wrong word), APPRECIATING about today’s witnesses is that they are blowing the defence out of the water (sorry again).

    These highly introverted scientific types, more used to peering down the lens of a microscope, doyens in their field of expertise, are basically standing up to the defence and getting their points across loud and clear.

    The jury will take note, I’m sure, that these meek and mild boffins have absolutely no reason to hedge their bets. They have a message to tell, and they’re bloody well going to use it!

    Said jury will have no choice but to compare these men of expertise and their testimony with one NBC whose best evidence was that depressed women don’t wear coloured clothes, the newly-hyphenated Olivia opining about Allison’s incontinence etc etc.

    As of today, those quiet blokes who work laboriously in labs and wear white coats, live law-abidingly in their neighbourhood, maintain a household with financial security, don’t cheat on their wives, are our UNSUNG HEROES!

    Don’t under estimate the gruelling they received from an increasingly hapless defence team.

    They stood their ground. Hats off to them all!


    • Thank goodness for these scientists, GBH, as the defence, of course, will be trying to blow them out of the water and to minimize their testimony – and as you say, they aren’t having it!

      I would love to see some BC faces right now!


    • With regard to matters of incontinence, I’m wondering how Gerbil’s bowels are functioning after today’s evidence?


      • LOL, GHS, I think that the blood raced from his face, down, lol.

        Such a good point, wonder how he is feeling? If he feels like a drink?

        Good. He can’t have one.


      • GHS , your comment struck a chord with me …. so much so i almost joined the incontinence crew … it’s 3.30am and with the knowledge that noise travels at night I’m probably waking the neighbours …. Gerry must have loved Bruce’s testimony , have you ever seen a ‘Pollie Backflip’ the good doctor has gone from ” i’ll drop in for a cuppa , cos one of my mates missus is AWOL” to resembling a spinning top on Xmas morning with ” Baden Who ? Oh him …. ahhh yes it was precisely 10.43 pm ”
        A little earlier i replayed GBC’s 000 call and he blew Nige the Ninkumpoop’s statement made under oath ” Its GERRARD ” , well Nige ol Son , Gerry himself spelt it G_E_R_A_R_D and promounced it as GERRID , tis odd how liars always get found out.


  12. Dr Guymer, “I returned to Kholo Creek bridge on 19th July to complete another survey. Chinese Elm and Eucalypt only found. I went to the nearby scout camp and travelled along the area and I did not find other plants.”


  13. Mr Cheeseman, “For the first six months I approved every expense, Gerard was definitely optimistic about the business. We wouldn’t have lent Gerard the money if we didn’t think he would pay it back. I didn’t make a demand for the money. I do believe that Gerard’s credit card debt was his only personal debt.

    In June, after Gerard’s arrest, the rent roll reverted back to the former partners. I believe that Gerard was always optimistic and I also believe that Allison had admiral ambitions, I would describe her as optimistic.”

    Defence: “Were you aware that Allison wanted a son?”.

    Cheesman, “I was aware of that. I knew Allison was suffering from depression and that Gerard found it hard. My company and Gerard’s company were both once listed in BRW’s fastest growing companies”.

    What does everyone else think? There seems to be a trend that Gerard’s friends run down Allison and support this suicide theory with their comments. Why are Allison’s friends, bar one, not on the stand?

    Why is the prosecution not asking questions, anywhere, anytime? Something?????

    (Please note that Olivia established the first day that their was a new boy grandchild born the night Allison was murdered). What a sister in law!!!!

    The defence, to my view, have joined “scummier” word!


  14. Oh brother. The defence certainly is desperate for straws. If on the jury, I’d be frowning at the defence and BC’s!!!!

    Mr Christ, “Our families would occasionally go camping together. Allison would be removed, or quiet and reclusive at times. If I dropped the children off, Allison would be at the door smiling and happy, other times she would not come out. It wasn’t a big deal, that was Allison.”


  15. GBC’s friend, Mr Christ stated:

    “Nigel said that they were going after Gerard. I told Nigel that they should focus on finding Allison. I gave Nigel the number of a lawyer who I went to school with.”


  16. I am placing this email here for Mike for comment, so we have his thoughts on both Day 7 and Day 9:

    Hi All I’m having all sorts of PC probs , back last Fri (21st) i began a message but could not see it however i see the “Hello” was posted so i dont know if this will appear or not … We have all followed this case from day one and i’ve often wondered what it was that made it different , for me i think it was that Allison comes across as a super mum and a wife who took her vows seriously , but on day one i was unaware of any of that . I do recall seeing the interview with GBC and OW and my immediate reaction was ” he’s bullshitting” , i then searched for the plea made by John Sharpe , the bloke who killed his wife , unborn child and daughter with a spear gun as i saw many similarities.
    So far in this trial i have tried to be unbiased and rely on testimony only , as of now i have the prosecution at 90 and the defence rating a 10 .

    Can anyone enlighten me as to whether a Juror can ask a witness questions ? If not , i wonder why not .

    My lovely lady (Diane ) asked a question the other day and i think it needs answering , Does GBC have a life policy? To her , and i agree , normal practice is that the bread winner is the one who’s life is insured not a ‘ stop at home Mum’ … if he is not insured , as an uncertain Juror that’d swing my vote to guilty.

    If correct that GBC had an ‘insufficient funds’ occurrence on the same day Allison is supposed to have called the insurer asking to lower the cover the family were in dire straights.

    Olivia Walton testified several times that Allison rarely drove a car , that begs the question of why did they purchase the new Captiva 8 weeks before her death especially when money was tight and she did not or very rarely drove.

    Why did NBC mention time and time again “depression ‘ when qualified medical witnesses stated it was untrue, oh and if wearing black is due to depression Diane must be suicidal, best i tie a leg rope on her and keep an eye out when she grabs a knife to slice my bit of her famous Fruit Cake.

    Speaking of fruit Cakes I wonder if GBC will take the stand , i hope he does . Seeing the ‘suicide’ theory put forward by the defence has been shown to be a furphy , they have not as yet told us how she walked the distance to Kholo creek , she might have caught a bus … someone please ask him if he didn’t , who did kill her ?

    Another odd one , we’ve heard testimony that Toni Mac lost it when she found out Allison was headed for the same meeting as she was , if she was so angry that Allison was to be there , why did she attend ? Did she already know Allison could not go ?

    Watching an FBI Files doco the other night a similar case was aired a father who’d killed his wife when found guilty, the insurance payout reverted to the children , does anyone know if that applies in Oz ?

    Early in the investigation we received daily updates from a copper who’s names evades me , after GBC’s arrest he seemed to disappear and i don’t recall him being called as a witness , he came across as a man on a mission as did the the whole of QLD bar the Baden Clay Mob.
    I doubt any of us will ever forget those (including those here) who tried to find Allison and i for one thank them .

    With my computer ‘Gone to God ‘ and this lap top with a mind of its own i can barely keep abreast of the trial but when emailed automatically or linked by someone can still read this site. I have no F/book (probably a good thing) No Banking etc. etc. but emails i do get.

    Thank you all for keeping me informed,….

    Today Vic has been hit with gale force winds, and heavy rain so much so that part of our corrugated iron roof lifted and flooded our laundry and has water damaged the plaster wall , ahhh Murphy’s Law … lol The wind was so strong the dog was blown off his chain and i found him at the Butchers front door.

    Cheers for now … Mike.


    • LOL oh Mike, please cherish your laptop and stay away from Diane’s Knife and the horrible weather, we need your humour!

      My theory is that the Prosecution are trying to keep things uncomplicated for the jury: they are trying to show that Allison did not kill herself, would not have killed herself and had everything to live for.
      After all, an unfaithful, lying, cheating, incompetent, cruel, narcissistic sociopathic arrogant try-hard doth not necessarily a murderer make. But she died unnaturally, and someone made her dead.
      The only conclusion a reasonable person -juror- could come to is the ONE PERSON with motive, means and opportunity was likely to have done it and that the evidence presented backed that up.
      All the other stuff is just distractions.
      Hope it doesn’t backfire.


  17. Thank you everyone for your comments to me, I really appreciate them – hugs to you all.

    You all care so much for people, and your care for Allison has brought us together.

    Big hugs.


  18. Hi Mike,

    1. I agree with you, so far, the trial is going well, although I am wondering why the defence is so reserved is a mystery to me. I am going on and on; however, what the?
    2. Hi Diane (hugs) – here is the documentation with regard to the insurance policies:

    1. Ohhh Mike, wouldn’t it be great if GBC took the stand!

    2. Good point with regard to Toni and Allison going to the same meeting. As you say, if Toni was so upset, why did she go?

    3. One of our local policemen who looked for Allison said that the police all knew “something” same as our thoughts have been all along.

    4. Mike, we have your winds up in Queensland now – thank you, lol


  19. I too have been pondering the prosecution’s line of questioning. It seems perhaps that it’s a long sure road they’re walking with an end goal in mind, where they are trying not to set off ‘red herrings’ along the way and keeping things simple. Any fodder offered the defense will cloud issues for the jury. I think it’s also the reason they have left any possible accomplices out of the equation, to keep their sights firmly lined up on GBC.

    There does seem to be a strategy behind it, keeping focussed on the end result for the jury members, but at times it seems perplexing why they called certain witnesses at all and why they haven’t cross-examined many of them and asked the hard questions, as you say Moonlight. I sat tonight trying to imagine I was a member of the jury, knowing (or caring on a personal level?) very little about the case before me.

    I’m really pleased the jury members spent time at the bridge yesterday and have seen for themselves the distance from the BC house to Kholo Bridge. I was interested that the judge directed them to observe certain things at the house – the location of the carport and back patio (obviously), but also the location of the bathrooms and bedrooms and dining room. I found the latter curious. They would’ve had the opportunity to see the location of the witnesses’s homes from the BC’s and the lie of the land to weigh all up all their testimonies as to what they heard that night. Likewise with the witnesses from Karalee, the dogs barking and two thumps heard. Without seeing it and the maps they were provided with, it would be difficult to weigh up.

    I know the only suggestion the defense has is that Allison took her own life. The evidence today from an expert witness was that there was insufficient Zoloft in her system to end her life, and that Zoloft rarely kills anyone without the presence of other drugs. There’s also the insinuation from experts that Allison didn’t jump from the bridge herself (alive) otherwise she would’ve had fractured bones (nor ended up under the bridge).

    The jury will be weighing up whether she walked to the bridge (possible, but time-consuming), and then lay down under it and died? No knife or other means found with which she slit her wrists or inflicted injuries on herself. The motive is coming up right now in court, GBC’s financial incompetence (or at least a failing business, borrowing money left right and centre), evidence in emails that he would ‘be with’ Toni unconditionally by 1st July and also that he told counsellors/psychiatrist as far back as 2009/2010 that he wanted out of the marriage. Then will come the evidence of Allison’s insurance payout, to meet these financial pressures. Somehow her premiums have been paid at the 11th hour to keep her policy intact, despite GBC having no funds and his ‘business worth nothing’. You and your wife raise a very valid question, Mike, did GBC keep his own life insurance policy going or not? Did he focus on just keeping Allison’s going?…


  20. I reckon i just worked out why Nige was nicking off with both the Hoover and the Hose , well i have two theories , however the first some of you may discount , i wonder if he’d bought one of those new fangled ‘Hoselink’ jobs and after an early start refreshing the house yard and cars all the while coaching Gerardddddddddd , he would’ve been fully loaded with Bwana Faeces , hence head home with the Hoselink and shove it where the sun dont shine for colonic irrigation delights with Lady Pash assisting as Nurse Nylex

    Ok , you dont buy theory one … try this , It’s now proven an altercation took place , It’s proven she did NOT suicide , it’s proven she did NOT drown , plant matter was found within her professional Hairdo , the 6 species do exist at the rear of 593 Brookfield Rd but only 2 species from Kholo Creek and upstream , I’m guessing the Lord of Skull Manor knowing there may be blood spilt in the area had sent gallons of H2O in the general area where Allison’s life ended , however just incase there was blood on the hose why not remove it.

    Yesterday’s testimonies did his cause no good … he must realise freedom is now but a pipe dream and he best get used to Jail food , i realise he almost got away with murder if they’d managed to get the Captiva to Kholo Creek , and if he’d told police ” the wife and i got into a physical altercation and i hate to admit it but i slapped her and she retaliated by scratching me ,then she got in her car and left , and thats the last i saw of her” authorities then may have believed the suicide theory.

    Things are really looking bleak for Gerrid so much so i hear brother Adam flew into Brissy yesterday , possibly to help with the ” Ohhh NOOOO’s ! ” when the Jury Foreman states “GUILTY”

    Cheers to all … Mike .


  21. GBC digging a hole for himself (continued)

    Officer, “Has there been some marital issues?”

    GBC, “Can you keep your voice down please?”

    Officer, “Thank you for being so helpful. We are trying to formulate a plan to search for her. It is difficult, we don’t really have a defined starting time. What was Allison wearing?”

    GBC, “Grey pants, it has been cool in the mornings.”

    Officer, “What are your plans for the day?”

    GBC, “I just want to do whatever I can do. I have been told that I can’t join the search.”

    Recording has finished.

    Editor’s note: We know that a police officer said that he did not say that GBC cannot join the search. Who would listen to that comment anyway? Who? No-one!


  22. Sergeant Schnitzerling attended the forensic examination of the Captiva.

    Photograph: Captiva parked facing carport.

    Schnitzerling, “I photographed baskets of children’s toys in the rear of the car, where a third row of seats can be folded up. I noticed stains on the side of the car and alerted a forensic officer. I noticed stains when the seats were moved into the upright position. It seemed quite significant at the time. We put barcodes next to the stain and a blond hair attached to the stain. The stain was swabbed and the hair taken to be sent off for scientific examination.


  23. Oh boy:

    Ms Reeves, “I was also given the fingernails from Allison’s left hand. I received incomplete profiles which matched reference profiles. I received incomplete information from a second contributor under Allison’s nail, not enough to create a profile”.

    “I was given a swab from the stain in the Holden Captiva. It matched the DNA profile that I had from Allison. DNA from Allison’s brother, children and parents did not match the blood in the car.”


  24. McLeod, “A command post was set up on 20th April, 2012, the search was extensive.

    McLeod, “There is mention in the log of Mrs Apps being visited, nothing to indicate further contact.”

    McLeod, “There was a large volume of information reported to the police as the result of media coverage. Only one person ever thought that they’d seen Allison. The lady came forward to say that she was the person who spotted Allison walking.”


      • Hi Mike,

        I am of the same opinion. A big deal was made of Mrs App’s testimony, late on the Friday afternoon, before the weekend, in my view, a strategic move by the defence.

        Dr Bruce Flegg and Anne Rhodes, who live close enough to each other, statement’s were similar with regard to how the scream sounded, “spine chilling” type of description.

        The police, in my view, took the evidence that was pertinent. They interviewed so many people and more than once, including those in the school.


    • Thanks for your excellent coverage Moonlight! So the Crown has wrapped up its case now, I think they called 71 witnesses, so they must’ve thought the remaining few weren’t worth calling, or repeated evidence.

      I’m watching the live feed and the Crown are reading evidence that has BEEN ACCEPTED BY BOTH SIDES. One thing that really stands out to me amongst them is that GBC’s phone was plugged into the charger at 1.48am on 20th April. This puts paid to his theory that he slept like a baby, in my view and raises considerable doubt for the jury as to WHAT he did that night, unless the defense claim it was one of the children or a mysterious visitor!

      And it’s also admitted that GBC contacted his insurance company on 1st May to find out how he could claim against Allison’s insurance policy. Her body had not yet been identified! Not looking good Gerrarrrrrddd!!


      • Dear Sad for Allison, You are very welcome, it is my pleasure. The Crown, as you say, is all wrapped up. I guess from tomorrow we will need to “breath” and stay calm as the Defence begins their case and hope that there is some cross examination.


  25. Thanks so much again Moonlight. Your hard work all day, every day is so evident.

    I felt a real sense of “deflation” upon arriving home from work to hear that the Crown had rested. (Wish my body size could similarly deflate)

    The “slam dunk” I had been waiting for didn’t appear to have been delivered by the prosecution over the past weeks of evidence.

    But when I pondered that Gerbil’s defence team now has “open slather,” I figured that the role of the prosecution will change markedly:

    That the Crown will effectively become ALLISON’s defence corps. for the remainder of the trial.

    I’m trying to take some solace from that rationalisation.

    SFA’s point about both sides’ agreement that Gerb’s phone was put on charge in the wee small hours is spot on.

    Little girls who were either (according to GBC):

    • so tired after their cross country run that they slept blissfully all night, not even waking at their usual “sparrow hours”

    or, as has been implied

    • been the recipients of pre-meditated medication

    would surely not have woken during the night, wandered about the house, found old Gerb (silly duffer) had forgotten to charge his phone, from the kindness of their heart(s) realised his error and without waking either parent, chose to plug it in lest he be battery-less in the morning.

    I see that this afternoon has been given over to legal argument. Wonder what that’s all about?

    Better sleuths than me may have an idea?


    • GHS from what I can gather, the Prosecution rested then Defence put forward a motion to dismiss based on lack of evidence, which something a Good Defence apparently commonly does. There was a lot of argy-bargy, after which His Honour said ‘No, we’re going to let the Jury make up their minds’ – and so it’s back on tomorrow with ball in Defence court. So to speak. I believe there may be some agonising this evening as if the defendant is to appear and speak on his own behalf, he apparently must be First Up. Should be interesting.
      This is only a summary of my observations from various discussion groups today.


      • Thanks so much Tishy, my curiosity was killing me.

        It must have been agonizing for anyone still in court, listening to the defence attempting to put forward the motion to dismiss.


    • Thank you GHS.

      I do hope that the crown does a good job, we will be reading and watching.

      It will be interesting what the explanation will be for the phone being recharged. There seems to be a lot of information that is glossed over by the crown. Time will tell, I still don’t understand them. Perhaps they don’t want to be bogged down with the details of GBC allegedly lying?


  26. Hi All , I dont know about you but i’m rather disappointed in the crown’s case , i’m no legal expert but i am a parent and i learnt how to find the truth when my children told me porky pies , it’s not difficult to ask questions.

    I simply cannot fathom why the prosecution didnt ask any of dozens of questions that remain unanswered , one strikingly odd thing came to light only yesterday to me was that the police drove GBC to his father’s residence where he entered the property alone to retrieve his razor that was wrapped in gladwrap , i for one would have wanted to know why on earth did NBC have his son’s razor at his home and how the hell does anyone know it is the razor he used that day , i’m assuming NBC refused the police entry otherwise an officer should have accompanied GBC to retrieve the item.

    GBC stated his razor was old , why didnt the prosecution have the manufacturer test it as i’m certain they would have the means to decipher how long their product remained servicable.

    I also beg each and everyone of you to ask every male you come across today when is the last time they cut themselves shaving , personally i cant remember but 10 years or longer i’d think.

    At times during this trial i wondered if the crown have done their homework , it has been suggested to me that police know GBC is the perpertrator but lack the evidence to convict him and therefore charged him then opposed bail knowing at least he’d spend a long time incarcerated awaiting his trial.

    (to me Justice would be life with no chance of parole)

    I was also under the impression Danny Boyle was the lead prosecutor however i’ve not seen where he has said boo. And the original Detective (his name still escapes me) who appeared on our TV News programs updating us nightly did not rate a mention nor did he testify.

    To me as they rest their case i feel it has been handled very poorly and as if they cant be bothered going that extra yard.

    As i stated i’m no legal eagle but to have so called experts testify via telephone is absolutely ridiculous , the jury needs to see who it is giving their expert findings.
    Remember Gerard’s body language when he and OW were interviewed ? You dont get that via a phone.

    Only yesterday it appears the ‘surprise witness’s ‘ testimony was shown to have a major flaw the prosecutor said nothing and we still are unaware as to whether jury are to disregard Mrs Apps appearance.
    Moonlight was awake to the defence ploy played out over a weekend to gain maximum exposure why wasnt the crown ??

    During the trial so far i felt the prosecution was building a great case and that they must’ve had a few surprises up their sleeve , however it appears i was wrong and i now believe GBC will get away with murder and in doing so will have his children returned to his care , to say that thought hurts is the understatement of the century .

    For those girls to grow up with a father and paternal grandparents such as they have after their maternal grandparents have taken them in and nurtured them through this horrid time will be the straw that breaks not only the children but Mr n Mrs Dickie as well.

    I sincerly hope i’m wrong and justice for Allison prevails , but to do that the jury has to be beyond reasonable doubt which i feel has not been established.

    My one hope is that the defence is as sloppy as the prosecution has been and i can only imagine how the coppers who investigated this case must feel.


    • Dear Mike,

      In my opinion, the defence is on their mark, believable, and quietly hammering their point across. At the pre-trial, it was the same deal. I thought to myself, “Where is the prosecution?” They didn’t say a word when the defence was attempting to have evidence suppressed, I found it odd. Not having any experience in a court situation, I put it down to that.

      I am worried. There was opportunity to set up that, in my view, GBC is allegedly a liar and that his friend supporters are allegedly vague with their answers, all was just brushed under the carpet, while the defence strategized, and did it well, with Mrs Apps. The defence is convincing and without being questioned, where will this trial end up going? (as you said).

      You are also right about the razor. The whole scenario is just strange, GBC walked out with it wrapped in glad wrap, going into NBC’s house alone. The police were fast setting up the crime scene, noticing what was going on, yet, the important items, like the razor was sloppy. Remember, also, a poster who was new pointed out a few weeks ago (thank you) that the right tests couldn’t be done on Allison’s body, there was a big hold up. Why???????????


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